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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Delvac 50 + Amsoil Synchromesh Results

In an effort to help those of you who was where I've been, trying to wade through all of the information about what oil(s) work in the G-56 and decide what oil or combination of oils is best to run in my G-56. I thought I'd post up the results of some real world testing to save you some headache, unnecessary wear & tear, and some $$$ out of your pocket.

After reading the G-56 Factory fill is NOT ATF+4thread
https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/07...t-atf-4-a.html

I decided to change out my Original ATF+4 that had 25K-28K miles on it with the Mobile 1 Delvac Synthetic SAE50 & Amsoil Synchromesh mixed at a ratio of 5 qts of Delvac to 3 qts of synchromesh, (62.5% Delvac/37.5% Synchromesh). The Delvac & the Amsoil had similar bases and Pensoil & Royal Purple seed to have mediocore to bad reviews so that's why I went with this combo. I Also went with a combo instead of straight Delvac to help with hard shifting which many guys mentioned especially in cold weather even though I'm in So Cal where it never really gets below 30 degrees in the winter.

I also wanted to overfill it with 7 qts + to help with bearing cooking when pulling loads up hill so I bought a TDS custom designed inspection plate with pre-drilled nipples for a trans cooler, and a higher fill point that allows for 7.5 qts to be pumped in with out taking apart the cab and pulling the shift boot. I designed these but you can buy them like this from TDS, it makes overfilling & adding a cooler much easier.
Delvac 50 + Amsoil Synchromesh Results-20151017_144849.jpg

At the time I made the switch I had a stock clutch and right from the get go the shifting was difficult, notchy, near impossible to get in to 2nd from dead stop most times, third was hard to get it in to also. Eventually I upgraded to a Valir Street Quiet DD, and the "gear roll over" was what was to be expected but even Valir recommends the Delvac 50 straight no mix. After about 10K with the new clutch I began having issues getting the trans out of gear in both 2nd & third and getting it in to reverse was getting harder and getting it out of reverse could ONLY be done while rolling, so it looked like things where getting worse.

At this point I decided on the recommendation of Danderson who had been where I was to switch the trans fluid to the Amsoil 75/90 Manual Transmission Gear Lube (75/90 MTG) Post #775
https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/07...l#post25723073


When I drained the Delvac & Synchromesh with about 32K to 35K miles on it and to my surprise there where no real big chunks but it did what I would consider a lot of fine brass in the oil, see for here are some pics of the bottom of the pan
Delvac 50 + Amsoil Synchromesh Results-img_20180610_143550827.jpg

Delvac 50 + Amsoil Synchromesh Results-img_20180610_143303146.jpg

Delvac 50 + Amsoil Synchromesh Results-img_20180610_143312662.jpg
Delvac 50 + Amsoil Synchromesh Results-img_20180610_143231953.jpg

After the swap to the Amsoil I drove it 10 miles and shifting in to 2nd was much smoother, I didn't have to fight it, even at a stop, shifting in to 3rd was good, it still hangs coming out of 3rd & reverse but I think that is wear from the previous Delvac oil, I did notice much reduced "gear roll over" when lugging it, with the Delvac anything under 1300-1400 it would chatter and start to shake especially when pulling load in to a taller gear. With the Amsoil 75/90 I could lug it down to 900 RPM and the gear roll over was much reduced with very little chatter and no vibration. to me this is much improved performance over the Delvac/Synchromesh combo. The MTG is lighter viscosity almost like vegetable oil VS the Delvac/synchromesh that was closer to hot honey.

I do run a temp gauge and on long trips, it takes the Delvac/Synchromesh about 20-30 miles to get to 100*-120*, 50-60 miles to get to 140*-150*, and 200 miles to get to 180*. Wit the MTG it took only 10 miles of street driving to get to 120*. I'm driving 600 miles through the desert towing 4K this weekend up & down grades I'll watch the temps VS mileage and report back.

My initial reaction is the the MTG works much better but will most likely need more frequent service intervals.

And lastly Price; I could ONLY get the Delvac in a box of 4 gallons for $175 plus I had to buy the 3 Amsoil Synchromeshes which ran me at least $36-$40, so I was in the Delvac/Synchromesh $110 for 8 qts and I'm in the MTG $123 for 8 quarts at dealer price (Art 510-258-1071). So I think I'll end up spending more on the MTg since I suspect the service intervals will also be shorter but I think it is doing a lot less damage to my brass synchros which in the long run will more than make up for the little extra spent on better working oil.

Good Luck hope this helps you avoid a lot of wasted time & money chasing your tail for the right trans oil for the G-56, like I did.


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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2004.5ram2500 View Post
In an effort to help those of you who was where I've been, trying to wade through all of the information about what oil(s) work in the G-56 and decide what oil or combination of oils is best to run in my G-56. I thought I'd post up the results of some real world testing to save you some headache, unnecessary wear & tear, and some $$$ out of your pocket.

After reading the G-56 Factory fill is NOT ATF+4thread
https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/07...t-atf-4-a.html

I decided to change out my Original ATF+4 that had 25K-28K miles on it with the Mobile 1 Delvac Synthetic SAE50 & Amsoil Synchromesh mixed at a ratio of 5 qts of Delvac to 3 qts of synchromesh, (62.5% Delvac/37.5% Synchromesh). The Delvac & the Amsoil had similar bases and Pensoil & Royal Purple seed to have mediocore to bad reviews so that's why I went with this combo. I Also went with a combo instead of straight Delvac to help with hard shifting which many guys mentioned especially in cold weather even though I'm in So Cal where it never really gets below 30 degrees in the winter.

I also wanted to overfill it with 7 qts + to help with bearing cooking when pulling loads up hill so I bought a TDS custom designed inspection plate with pre-drilled nipples for a trans cooler, and a higher fill point that allows for 7.5 qts to be pumped in with out taking apart the cab and pulling the shift boot. I designed these but you can buy them like this from TDS, it makes overfilling & adding a cooler much easier.
Attachment 816345

At the time I made the switch I had a stock clutch and right from the get go the shifting was difficult, notchy, near impossible to get in to 2nd from dead stop most times, third was hard to get it in to also. Eventually I upgraded to a Valir Street Quiet DD, and the "gear roll over" was what was to be expected but even Valir recommends the Delvac 50 straight no mix. After about 10K with the new clutch I began having issues getting the trans out of gear in both 2nd & third and getting it in to reverse was getting harder and getting it out of reverse could ONLY be done while rolling, so it looked like things where getting worse.

At this point I decided on the recommendation of Danderson who had been where I was to switch the trans fluid to the Amsoil 75/90 Manual Transmission Gear Lube (75/90 MTG) Post #775
https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/07...l#post25723073


When I drained the Delvac & Synchromesh with about 32K to 35K miles on it and to my surprise there where no real big chunks but it did what I would consider a lot of fine brass in the oil, see for here are some pics of the bottom of the pan
Attachment 816353

Attachment 816361

Attachment 816369
Attachment 816385

After the swap to the Amsoil I drove it 10 miles and shifting in to 2nd was much smoother, I didn't have to fight it, even at a stop, shifting in to 3rd was good, it still hangs coming out of 3rd & reverse but I think that is wear from the previous Delvac oil, I did notice much reduced "gear roll over" when lugging it, with the Delvac anything under 1300-1400 it would chatter and start to shake especially when pulling load in to a taller gear. With the Amsoil 75/90 I could lug it down to 900 RPM and the gear roll over was much reduced with very little chatter and no vibration. to me this is much improved performance over the Delvac/Synchromesh combo. The MTG is lighter viscosity almost like vegetable oil VS the Delvac/synchromesh that was closer to hot honey.

I do run a temp gauge and on long trips, it takes the Delvac/Synchromesh about 20-30 miles to get to 100*-120*, 50-60 miles to get to 140*-150*, and 200 miles to get to 180*. Wit the MTG it took only 10 miles of street driving to get to 120*. I'm driving 600 miles through the desert towing 4K this weekend up & down grades I'll watch the temps VS mileage and report back.

My initial reaction is the the MTG works much better but will most likely need more frequent service intervals.

And lastly Price; I could ONLY get the Delvac in a box of 4 gallons for $175 plus I had to buy the 3 Amsoil Synchromeshes which ran me at least $36-$40, so I was in the Delvac/Synchromesh $110 for 8 qts and I'm in the MTG $123 for 8 quarts at dealer price (Art 510-258-1071). So I think I'll end up spending more on the MTg since I suspect the service intervals will also be shorter but I think it is doing a lot less damage to my brass synchros which in the long run will more than make up for the little extra spent on better working oil.

Good Luck hope this helps you avoid a lot of wasted time & money chasing your tail for the right trans oil for the G-56, like I did.
Glad it's an improvement.
I drank the Kool-Aid and went with Lazar Smith's GJ. Drained it after having so much issue shifting. It was loaded with brass particles. We poured it through a black t-shirt and it was pitiful. 45 miles,not 45K.
Next was the Delvac. Improved but nothing like the MTG. I need to drain it pretty soon as I have about 40K on it now.
I had the pleasure of driving a G-56 that a guy picked up. It had a smf conversion and 200K. That trans was as quiet and smooth as mine with the DMF stocker.
It may have been rebuilt,but the new owner didn't know.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 10:56 PM
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Nice write-up.

I am curious why you think that the service interval on the MTG will be shorter then recommended??

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-25-2018, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Well I've got some time and a few thousand miles on the MTG and...

After spending $125 on the MTG I was quite disappointed with the results on my first trip. The fluid gets HOT and it gets hot FAST. With the Delvac combo it took 200 miles (not towing) to get to 180 degrees on a steady climb. Once at 180* it leveled off and didn't get much above that maybe 190* at 275 miles with ambient temps in the 100* range. Running the MTG I tracked the results making the same trip under the same load conditions and similar ambient temps:

30 miles to get to 140*
100 miles to get to 160*
140 miles to get to 180*
And then it was a slow climb to 200*

Additionally now when cold I'm having the exact same hard shifting issues (getting it in & out of 1st & 2nd gear) I had with the Delvac and when the MTG fluid is above 180* to 190* I can't get it in to or out of gear for anything and I have to shut off the truck to get it out of gear which I never experienced with the Delvac combo.

At this point I'm thinking I'd like to try the Delvac/Amsoil Synchromesh combo at a mix ratio of 50/50 (4qts Delvac to 4 Qts Synchromesh) and see how that performs compared to the 5 Delvac/3 synchromesh combo I ran for 28K miles above.

I have not towed my heavy box trailer on a trip yet and I'm pretty sure the temps are going to get hot real fast with the MTG. In fact I'm pretty sure I'm going to switch it out before that happens.

Heat kills and the MTG gets hot!

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 04:03 PM
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Interesting, I'm currently also looking into getting a different fluid for my G56 and I was thinking of 75W80 as per MB235.41 spec for cold climates.

Did you overfill with the MTG as well?

I've just started reading into this, but it looks like the mixture you had before was a bit thinner at higher temperatures than the 75W90. Maybe try Redline's 75w85?

Stealhead01 recommended going 75w85 in this thread: https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...e-oil-g56.html

Looking at the oils you used, it looks like you've increased the viscosity at high temperatures, which might be the cause of the higher temperatures?
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 05:02 PM
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There's coolers out there too.

https://www.genosgarage.com/category...ission-coolers

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 05:26 PM
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I did the Mobile Delvac 50 8 quarts and 1 quart of Royal Purple syncromesh and even below zero degrees out it only takes 100 yards and shifting is easy. Maybe I have a odd G56 but I have been very Happy with the delvac 50 and I tow heavy here in the mountains.

Forgot to mention I also have the Trans Cool PTO Covers

2006 Blue Laramie DRW. 3500 5.9 G56 Mobil Delvac 50, Tans Cool PTO Covers, GDP Fuel Boss, GDP Double-X Ladder Bars, GPD big line kit, GDP MK-2 Fuel filter kit with CAT UHE 416 1225, GDP Power-Flo Intake Manifold, Throttle Up Industries Dual Fuel Filters, Dieselsite Coolant Filter, Cool Hose, Timbrens, 26k with Horses in Trailer, ................... BBi's .5 Towing Injectors WOW!
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
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It looks like the mixture you had before was a bit thinner at higher temperatures than the 75W90.

Looking at the oils you used, it looks like you've increased the viscosity at high temperatures, which might be the cause of the higher temperatures?
Well I've gotten some more education on oil viscosity and heat is the reason for the issues, I'm pretty sure it's the result not the cause because I've done my research and....

OEM spec is ATF+4 which has a CsT of -35.5/7.5
Mobile Delvac transmission fluid 50 has a CsT of -132/17.5
Amsoil Synchromesh has a CsT of. -48.3/9.7
Amsoil MTG (75w-90) has a CsT of. -87.6/13.9

AND my mix of 5qts Delvac (62.5%) & 3 qts Synchromesh (37.5%) has a CsT of. -88.76/14

SO...I don't think I could get any closer on Viscosity between the 5/3 Delvac/Synchromesh combo VS. the Amsoil MTG 75w-90 if I had tried.

So since both oils I've used virtually have the same tested viscosity at 40C (104F) and 109C (211F) the only thing I can attribute the heat difference to is the Amsoil has a different additive and or thickner that makes it run hotter.

Can someone chime in with some real knowledge on this?

The Amsoil says it's GL4 and had social additives to preserve brass synchros but the extra heat worries me. It's only getting to 210-220F max but if I can run at 160 to 180F on long tows instead I'm thinking that's better???

Thanks

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 07:26 AM
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Some info here: https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...light=overfill

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 09:09 AM
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Mixing different brands of lube oil made with different manufacturers of the additives and viscosity improvers chemical packages often has disastrous results. Wild viscosity due to chemcal reactions high or low. Additives fallout from the lube. Loss of antiwear additives due to chemical drop out.
Math does not make viscosity measurements, has to be done in lab.
Your are definitely NOT a lube oil chemist.

That looks like mud slop drained out.

Thick mixed goop does not climb the gears to upper shaft and its gears with syncros.

Sounds from all the no load heat issues 200d F and hard shifting empty with gear shift lockup, you have transmission wear issues. Good shape G56 in 100d F not towing should run no more that 180d F without coolers.

Stick with ONE ONLY lube oil manufacturer when mixing home brew lube oils or just try one of their lubes at a time.

I would suggest starting with drain and wipe out then, 7 qt fill with:

https://www.redlineoil.com/mt-85-75w85-gl-4-gear-oil

Redline is an ester based lube, ester are polar attracted at the molecular level to metals, i.e. gear teeth, bearings. They don't drain off. Amsoil is PAO based, lacks this benefit.

If you're going to tow, put on coolers. Auto trannies in these have 2 coolers for a reason.

Engine, turbo and exhaust dumps tons of heat back into these towing.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 11:34 AM
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Good info Steelhead.
I recently drained my MTG at 40K and it was like honey. I need to get the TDS cover plate and might as well try the Redline.
My friend's been running Redline in his NV5600 and loves it.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 07:41 PM
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Danderson, stick with what's working for you in the G56, they're finicky due to the alum. case gear roll over noise and getting lube up to all the gears/syncros on the upper shaft.

I've stuck with the Redline in the NV5600 because it's worked well since day one, very little syncro flakes, lube doesn't break down, smmmoooth shifting for a 5600, quiet even towing heavy deep into the compounds on a pass towing the guts out pulling the RV.

I'm happy as a clam with the Geno's dual deep fin coolers, keeps the tranny temps below 200d F pulling hard on passes in the SW Sierra Nevadas at 100d F+

https://www.genosgarage.com/product/...ission-coolers
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