Compounds or 6.7 block swap... 6.7 owners opions - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
07.5 - 09 3rd Gen 6.7L Performance Parts Discussion Discussion of Performance Parts For the 6.7L Trucks...NO ADVERTISING

 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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Compounds or 6.7 block swap... 6.7 owners opions

To start my truck is an 05 5.9, 6 speed. I'm considering possibly swapping to a 6.7 short block with a s463 on a 2nd gen manifold OR a compound set up with the stock 5.9 block. So I've compared the costs of going both routes, with the components I want to run, and they are very close in price. So my question is best bang for the buck for a daily and towing truck type build which is better? I know a 5.9 with compounds will make good power and be very useable power but on the other hand the 6.7 with a s463 2nd gen swap makes good usable power with more bottom end grunt where it's better suited for towing. Opinions? From the 2nd gen swapped 6.7 crowd what's yalls thoughts...

With either option the truck would get Studs SAC 100 Injectors(either late 5.9 or early 5.9 for the block swap) Valve springs 7/16 Manton pushrods Fleece coolant bypass
Truck already has a Banks intercooler with 3.5" boost tubes, which would be reused Organic dual disk


2005 QCLB 6 speed - South Bend Single - Banks intercooler w/3.5" pipes and intake horn - Fast Coolers - Smarty Jr - AirDog 4G 165 - More goodies to come
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SOLD-2003 QCSB 5 speed SDD3250-Fast Coolers-BMS 50s-6.7 feed tubes-CPP 115# springs-7/16" Manton pushrods-ARP studs-5" st8 Twin 7" CATs-ISSPRO's-Smarty S06-2nd gen manifold-He351- 2nd gen Intake Horn-Jacobs Brake-NUC Oil Bypass-Traction Bars

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 03:37 PM
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Just to further much up the choices I would consider an HE451 rather the S463, you get built in EB if the Fleece controller will work for that.

If you use a 6.7 fire ring the block, the only way to cure HG issues. The 5.9 will be more efficient and less troublesome in the long run, the 6.7 gives you a bit more grunt down low but with added cost of a fire ring and possibly less mpg.

05 QC LWB 4x4 Auto 3.73 LSD, IssproEV2's, Performance 48RE Opie TransGo , Smarty Tuned BBI Injected
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Fire ring it even for a low hp goal of around 600? From what I'm able to find regarding the swap you use the 6.7 gasket with a 5.9 head and studs. The reason for wanting the s400 vs a VE charger is the lower drive pressure, I do plan on runnin an exhaust brake(most likely a pacbrake PRXB) and with the added cost of vgt controller the cost effectiveness diminishes drastically lol

2005 QCLB 6 speed - South Bend Single - Banks intercooler w/3.5" pipes and intake horn - Fast Coolers - Smarty Jr - AirDog 4G 165 - More goodies to come
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SOLD-2003 QCSB 5 speed SDD3250-Fast Coolers-BMS 50s-6.7 feed tubes-CPP 115# springs-7/16" Manton pushrods-ARP studs-5" st8 Twin 7" CATs-ISSPRO's-Smarty S06-2nd gen manifold-He351- 2nd gen Intake Horn-Jacobs Brake-NUC Oil Bypass-Traction Bars

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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 03:08 PM
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Fire rings not required at all. The only way to cure? haha No. You just can't be doing what most do and wonder why it blows again. You need a fresh block and head surface. Without that there are no guarantees. Almost all cases of repeat problems are from one or both surfaces not being perfectly flat.

'05.5 6.7 Shotpeened NV5600 - 12.6 @ 111.6 - 994 HP & 1630 lbs/ft
150%'s, LBZ/Arson pumps, MHP +1mm, ZZFab, Wagler Rods, 69/73/1.0 & s482
1350 Frontshaft, TruTrac, 315's, 64" T-Bars,TGC 1/2"+, Carli BJ's, '08.5
Street Triple, 103#/Extreme Pushrods, 625's
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Last edited by Broaner; 03-11-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 10:29 AM
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Fire rings are needed with stock fueling, that much is obvious. Many stock tuned and fueled trucks blow the HG if things are not right. Lose an injector and do not catch under load and WILL be doing an HG. Too much timing to aggressive throttle, HG time. Less than perfect tuning on a custom tune, yep HG time again.

The ONLY way to stop the HG gaskets from going from a myriad of problems IS a fire ring. End of story. Take a look at the block and HG on a 6.7. No fire ring in the HG. Steam ports and coolant ports are VERY close to the cylinder. Siamese cylinder design and the configuration all mean that at some point unless you run a de-tuned engine and everything works right all the time it is going to eventually be a problem. The only engines that really do not suffer are the MD engines that are tuned to run a long time instead of the performance demands of the LD market. There is a reason.

Check the steam ports and coolant ports got pitting form electrolysis also. If you see that on the block or head the HG has been leaking at some point and it needs addressed.

The cracked cap powdered metal rods are highly suspect if there were ANY issues in the past. They don't flex well and a bad injector hammers the crap out of the rod and bearings. Check rod bearings and you can tell which cylinders have been subject to stresses and suspect for long life. You lose a rod you lose the engine and get to start over.

If you want a RELIABLE high performance engine in your truck and want the 6.7 you WILL have to work at it a bit. If you want to just drop it in and go that is your choice. I am giving you what we have found to be issues the impact reliability and engine life, your choice to address or not.

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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 03:05 PM
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My 6.7 is the only one of my vehicles that’s remained reliable (coming up on 6 years now). It’s never left a max effort tune (~600whp, and I use it) in over 80k km. It ran 7 months dailied on stock head bolts first at 500whp, then ~570 with a bigger turbo.

And I agree with broaner about not using firerings. A flat surface, mls gasket, and good studs is pretty proven to over 1k whp on a lot of trucks these days.

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 11:20 AM
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Bingo. HG issues come in if you are overworking turbos, have EB issues or too much timing. Yes I'll agree, the threshold of safety is much lower on a 6.7 than 5.9 but isn't terrible by any means. Correctly sized turbos are significantly more important on 6.7's. On my old turbo setup I would have popped a 6.7 head gasket the first time I sneezed on the throttle. Plus good surfaces, good tuning and good studs make the world go round.

I run 100+psi drive pressure on occasion without firerings. Just sayin... I know my setup doesn't make power over 4,000 revs so I don't push it past its limits. Recognizing limitations is the deal breaker.

'05.5 6.7 Shotpeened NV5600 - 12.6 @ 111.6 - 994 HP & 1630 lbs/ft
150%'s, LBZ/Arson pumps, MHP +1mm, ZZFab, Wagler Rods, 69/73/1.0 & s482
1350 Frontshaft, TruTrac, 315's, 64" T-Bars,TGC 1/2"+, Carli BJ's, '08.5
Street Triple, 103#/Extreme Pushrods, 625's
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