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Towing & Hauling Discussion of Towing & Hauling Habits

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Old 03-16-2011, 03:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 450smrider View Post
-If your vehicle / trailer combination is over 10,000 lbs but less than 26,000 lbs, you DO NOT need a Commercial Drivers License (CDL),

but if your trailer is 10,001 you need an a endorsement correct....
i was always told anything in tow 10k or more you have to have an a
theres so many loop holes its hard to keep up....
what about for private use only.. like my 2500 cummins and 18k gooseneck trailer
Nothing special is required for a trailer over 10k alone.

Your 3/4 ton and 18k would need a CDL unless considered a RV.


Great post Lawdog.
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Flag man;

I too was going to put a vinyl sticker on my truck and horse trailer with the name we call our home. ( Hot Rocks Ranch). I was told that in Kalifornia, I would need to do all the things for a commercial license, like down time for driver, maintain logs, commercial insurance ( Yeow! the cost!), pay over the road registration and get certified for CDL.

Sooooo... needless to say, when going to the penning trials, mounted shooters competitions, or even out to the beach for trail rides, and up to the Sierras for backpacking, I have clean sides on my rig. I did have my truck and trailer weighed, and am well under the limits at 23,000 lbs including horses and tack/water/hay. I still cannot cross many bridges or go thru tunnels cause we have propane tanks on the trailer. ( they run the genset and heat/cooking)

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Old 03-23-2011, 05:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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To answer a few questions that have been answered already....a trailer over 10,000 does not make it CDL.a COMBINATION over 26.000 IE: 26,001 or more makes CDL if trailer over 10,000. I hit a CAT Scale this past weekend just to see and was suprised to see 19,200 fully loaded.......BUT still under my 23,000 GCWR.....
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CHIEFIE View Post
Nothing special is required for a trailer over 10k alone.

Your 3/4 ton and 18k would need a CDL unless considered a RV.


Great post Lawdog.


hmm well whatever i have my class a so no worries but in ct im pretty sure you need an a for any trailer over 10k........anyways no matter how its looked at your ed in this state
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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but you must at least acknowledge my point in the wording of the definition of a CDL Class A licence that is found on the Connecticut State websites

A = Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds providing the gross vehicle rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- holders of class A licenses may, with the appropriate endorsements and restrictions, operate all vehicles within classes B and C.
(took that from the CT website)


those are the exact words, copy and pasted.

Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds ....... meaning, any combination of any vehicles, ie. truck and trailer, with a gross combined weight rating (GVWR of the truck + GVWR of the trailer) that equals to or above 26,001 pounds.......

providing the gross vehicle rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed in excess of 10,000 pounds.

that the trailer is rated for over 10,000


my equipment to be moved

GMC 5500 GVWR 25,900 pounds
trailer GVWR 18,000 pounds

GVWR 43,900 pounds


get my point. thats why this argument is so confusing. by the definition on the CT website i shoul dneed a CDL Class A licence to tow that truck...but ill let you guys know what i find out from the DMV


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#22 03-26-2006, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutRight
but you must at least acknowledge my point in the wording of the definition of a CDL Class A licence that is found on the Connecticut State websites

A = Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds providing the gross vehicle rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- holders of class A licenses may, with the appropriate endorsements and restrictions, operate all vehicles within classes B and C.
(took that from the CT website)


those are the exact words, copy and pasted.

Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds ....... meaning, any combination of any vehicles, ie. truck and trailer, with a gross combined weight rating (GVWR of the truck + GVWR of the trailer) that equals to or above 26,001 pounds.......

providing the gross vehicle rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed in excess of 10,000 pounds.

that the trailer is rated for over 10,000


my equipment to be moved

GMC 5500 GVWR 25,900 pounds
trailer GVWR 18,000 pounds

GVWR 43,900 pounds


get my point. thats why this argument is so confusing. by the definition on the CT website i shoul dneed a CDL Class A licence to tow that truck...but ill let you guys know what i find out from the DMV

I am facing the same dilema, Cutright...so what DID you find out at the DMV? I am in Va and our CDL laws mirror yours...to the word so I am quite curios how things went. Thanks!
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#23 03-26-2006, 11:21 PM
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there is another thread where i wrote everything i found out from the DMV what the rules are. search for the thread Cutright vs the CT DMV something like that

but the basic thing is.

if the truck GVWR is 26,001 or more - CDL Class B
if towing 10,000lbs or more (no matter the truck) - you need a CDL Class A

when towing the weights on your axles cannot exceed the axle ratings or tire ratings (whichever is lower) for each individual axle.
and also the weight of everything cannot exceed the GCWR of the rig your running (truck GVWR 30,000#s + trailer GVWR 20,000# = 50,000#GCWR), so the truck, trailer, and payload added together cannot exceed that 50,000# mark, but then.....
if your axle ratings say only add up to 45,000#s then you cannot exceed 45,000#s.

its a very complicated thing to try and to explain. the best thing is to get it straigth from the horses mouth. if you can, go to your dmv and ask to speak with a Department of Transportation Inspections Officer, because these will be the guys that will be pulling you over. you may have to call and make an appointment, but it should be possible to talk to them.
the inspection officer told me there is no actual document anywhere that tells you this stuff, so its basically up to the interpretation of whoever pulls you over.

also, at least in CT, you need US DOT numbers if your truck gvwr is 18,000#s or more.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdog View Post
To answer a few questions that have been answered already....a trailer over 10,000 does not make it CDL.a COMBINATION over 26.000 IE: 26,001 or more makes CDL if trailer over 10,000. I hit a CAT Scale this past weekend just to see and was suprised to see 19,200 fully loaded.......BUT still under my 23,000 GCWR.....
Don't come to Canada with a trailer over 10K. You need a Class A.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Howdy,
This subject has to have some of the most widespread myths out there. One of them being that you need a CDL for trailers over 10,000 GVWR and another is that you need a CDL for any combination of GVWR over 26,000. Facts are you need a CDL when those two weights are in combination.

"A = Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds providing the gross vehicle rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- holders of class A licenses may, with the appropriate endorsements and restrictions, operate all vehicles within classes B and C.
(took that from the CT website)"

Example are:
5500 @ 19,000 GVWR towing a 9,000 GVWR trailer for a 28,000 GCWR. CDL, NO
5500 @ 19,000 GVWR towing a 12,000 GVWR trailer for a 31,000 GCWR. CDL, YES Class A.
3500 @ 12,000 GVWR towing a 14,000 GVWR trailer for a 26,000 GCWR. CDL, NO
2500 @ 12,000 GVWR towing a 16,000 GVWR trailer for a 28,000 GCWR. CDL, YES. Class A.

Larger trucks,
Truck GVWR @ 26,000. CDL NO
Truck GVWR @ 26,000 towing a 10,000 GVWR for a 36,000 GCWR. CDL, NO
Truck GVWR @ 26,000 towing a 12,000 GVWR for a 38,000 GCWR. CDL, YES Class A.
Truck GVWR @ 26,001 or more. CDL, YES Class B.
Truck GVWR @ 26,001 or more towing a 10,000 GVWR trailer. CDL, YES Class B.


Now these example are weight based only and not taking into account any exemption, hauling of hazmat or passengers.

Last edited by Crete Too; 03-28-2011 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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FMCSA sets what the base or minimum requirements are. Each state can then make the requirements more restrictive (i.e. requiring a non-CDL Class A license to tow a trailer over 10k lbs even if non-commercial....like towing a boat with your family to your favorite lake).

Everyone needs to check with the state they live in, and abide to those rules and not what state they travel through (from a license viewpoint). Every state will honor what license and vehicle registration requirements are set for their home state.

I think THIS is where most people get confused and debates start. Jimmy Bob says you need this. John says you need that. Each live in a different state. While they may BOTH be correct for their own state, it may not be correct for the person asking the question who lives in neither of Jimmy's or John's state.

As for DOT number requirements, length laws, etc. you need to abide to EVERY state you drive through doesn't matter what laws say for your home state. And >>>THIS<<< is where most states make their money!
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crete Too View Post
Howdy,
This subject has to have some of the most widespread myths out there. One of them being that you need a CDL for trailers over 10,000 GVWR and another is that you need a CDL for any combination of GVWR over 26,000. Facts are you need a CDL when those two weights are in combination.

"A = Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds providing the gross vehicle rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed in excess of 10,000 pounds.
- holders of class A licenses may, with the appropriate endorsements and restrictions, operate all vehicles within classes B and C.
(took that from the CT website)"

Not necessarily

A Any tractor-trailer or combination of motor vehicle and towed vehicles where the towed vehicles exceed a total gross weight of 4,600 kilograms (10,000 pounds)

A with condition (R) Effective June 16, 2008:
Drivers with a restricted Class A licence condition would be prevented from operating:
a motor vehicle pulling double trailers
a motor vehicle pulling a trailer with air-brakes.
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Old 03-28-2011, 06:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Based on the above listed regulations, most trucks and enclosed trailers will exceed the 10,000 lb limit to become a CMV by weight. From my conversations with the representatives, if you are getting any sponsor dollars or “free stuff”, you are considered a commercial enterprise. Displaying a company logo on your trailer and / or snowmobile, can be considered commercial because you are advertising a sponsor.

It's funny you post this. I got pulled over a couple of years ago by MSP on my way up north on I-75. I was in the slow lane with the cruise set at 75, in a 70, and other cars, trucks/trailers were passing me on the left. The trooper said I was a CMV and was speeding and the speed limit was 55. I asked him what makes me a CMV. He said the Arctic Cat sponsorship stickers on the side of my trailer and the one in the back window of the cap on my truck. I kinda laughed and he asked what I thought was so funny. I told him I suck at riding and there ain't a sled company out there that would sponsor me anyway. The stickers were custom made and the sleds in the trailer are far from race sleds. A couple have can's on them and they all were bought off the dealership floor. He said the trailer looked too nice for just a weekend warrior and figured otherwise. He was just doing his job and seemed pretty cool.

However some can be real a$$holes. Family friend was on his way to an antique tractor show in his unit that is registered as a motorhome and pulling a gooseneck with two tractors on it. A Motor Vehicle Carrier out of the Richmond post stopped him and wrotes him a stack of tickets as thick as the Bible and were in the 5 figure mark as far as fines go. The rig passed as far as the weight per axle goes and the tractors were secured with straps that were DOT approved for more than the weight they were securing. Needless to say the trooper screwed with the wrong guy. I ain't gonna mention names but they guy made one phone call about all this and ALL the tickets were dropped by the end of the next day and the way I understand it the trooper got a "stern" talking to! The trooper still pulls outta Richmond but is a little more mellow now.

BTW lawdog, nice post!!
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDanecker View Post
FMCSA sets what the base or minimum requirements are. Each state can then make the requirements more restrictive (i.e. requiring a non-CDL Class A license to tow a trailer over 10k lbs even if non-commercial....like towing a boat with your family to your favorite lake).
Good point. California is an example of a state making the requirements more restrictive then the FMCSA. Sans CA it is my understanding that all of the other states follow the FMCSA in lock step. As far as CDL goes anyway.

Quote:
As for DOT number requirements, length laws, etc. you need to abide to EVERY state you drive through doesn't matter what laws say for your home state. And >>>THIS<<< is where most states make their money!
It is also my understanding that DOT numbers would like you described for licenses. If you are good in your state. Unless you need them for interstate use, then all the other states would be the same.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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In ohio, our company uses this as OUR guideline
We use 25,999 GVW as a safe mark

Truck is 25,999 GVW or less without trailer, Class D (normal operators license)
Truck is 26,001 GVW or more with out trailer, Clas B
Truck is 26,001 GVW or more with trailer at 9,999 GVW or less, Class B
Truck is 26,001 GVW or more with trailer at 10,000 or more, Class A
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