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What a let down - need air bags i guess

10K views 42 replies 19 participants last post by  JDoc556 
#1 ·
Hooked up my camper for the first time today to take it home for a few repairs. First time towing it with my new 2500. What a dissapointment. The camper is 30' and weighs 6500 lbs. I have a Reese weight distribution hitch. The rear end of the truck went down 2 full inches. The front went up about 3/4 inch, even with the load bars very loaded. That is more squat then my 2009 Ram 1500 with coil springs in the rear (exact same trailer, hitch, and tongue weight). Guess i expected more from a 2500 with leafs. Very dissapointed.

So i guess ill have to put some air bags on it so i can get a 6500lb trailer level on a 3/4 ton. :(
What setup is recommended. Dont need or want in-cab monitoring or on board air. Just a simple setup that does the job and isnt too difficult to install.

Thanks.
 
#2 ·
Stock suspension? I had a hemi with deavers mini pac setup, trailer weighs 8k empty. I got a drop when hooked just jacked the truck up with trailer jack and snapped up the w/d bars. What's the tongue weight? Is the trailer loaded heavy in the nose.
 
#3 ·
Check out the Timbrens, quick,easy,not expensive, I have been using them for serious towing on daily basis. When not towing they are not active. I have 150k,,on them,,just starting to ware
 
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#4 ·
What are the weight ratings of the WD bars? If you have 500 pound bars all you need to do is get some rated for 1000.
 
#5 ·
I agree in looking at Timbrens before airbags..... But really I'm not sure you need anything here because the weight you described isnt that heavy. Even if the WD hitch was not there, the proper tongue weight should be around 650-1000 lbs at most.....unless you're clearly loading this trailer incorrectly. Also, if the WD hitch and bars are the same as you used on the 1500 truck then it should easily be able to transfer that much weight on your 2500. It sounds like your problem is either you're loading the trailer incorrectly with all the weight on the tongue or the hitch is sitting much taller on the 2500 than it was on the 1500, which would alter the angle of the bars in relation to the hitch and trailer/truck frame. Maybe reconfiguring and making sure you have the WD hitch set up properly would help. :thumbsup:
 
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#7 ·
I hitch is highly adjustable for both height and angle of the ball. I did have to lower it a setting to compensate for the height of this truck compared to the 1500. That also required a new setting on the ball cam to make the ball level. Ill try playing around with the height and cam angle to see if that changes anything.
 
#6 ·
Just went and looked. They are 1000lb load bars on a 14000lb distribution hitch.

I honestly have no idea of the tongue weight. Its not excessive though. And like i said, i have had the trailer loaded the exact same since I bought it. Have towed it for over 2 years with my 2009 1500 with it loaded exactly the way it was today, using the same hitch and load bars. It sagged the 1500, but not to the point that the back was lower then the front like this was today.

I never would have suspected that the 5 link coil spring 1500 could handle the weight better then a leaf spring 2500.
 
#8 ·
One other thought i had is that i have my tires set to light load psi on the tpms (65psi) since it is off season and im not really towing right now. Usually when i tow i would be up closer to the max load, and on this truck the higher tpms setting. Since i measures the height of the rear from the ground to the bottom of the wheel well straight up the center of the tire/wheel, i suppose my tires not being at higher psi could have accounted for some of that extra squat. In otherwords, it might not have all been suspension. I will measure next time from the top of the tire to the the bottom of the wheel well. That should give me a more accurate reading of suspension squat onlu versus tire squat.
 
#9 ·
There's no way your 1500 has more load capacity than your 2500. Air up the tires and adjust the WD hitch and I'm sure you'll be much happier with the results. :thumbsup:
 
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#10 ·
I agree with other posters about checking out the hitch set up first. I have never personally had timbrens. I have had firestone riderite air bags and air lift bags with internal bump stops without the onboard air compressor. Both bag systems worked very well at raising the rear of the truck to level with a load. Both systems held up for the long haul. But, these systems will not redistribute the tongue load of an improperly set up hitch.


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#11 ·
I have used Air Lift on both a 2004 and 2014, 2500 ( leaf spring 04, coils 14 ), and Timbrens on a 3500, DRW, 2010, springs. Not impressed with the Timbrens. They sit to far from the spring and do nothing until the truck sages and lets timbren come into play. They help on the real heavy loads but the truck is still low on the ride height in the back. The air springs can be inflated to level the truck when needed and still get a good ride when not in use. It is curious that all the big three build trucks to tow, but sage when a trailer is hooked up. They want a car like ride and still be able to tow. Not to long ago a 3/4 ton truck rode like a bucking horse and did not squat much when the trailer was hooked up. Now they ride like a caddy but squat when we hook up the trailer. Go figure ! The important thing is to remember that what ever you use to level the truck, is that it is doing just that " leveling ", not increasing how much weight you can carry. Springs, axles, brakes, tires and wheels are all factors and the weakest one is the limiting one. Air lift bags with a wireless controlled compressor is what I have now and love it. :laugh:
 
#12 ·
If adjusting the hitch doesn't satisfy you, look at Torqlift stable loads. I used to run 40 psi in the bags with the truck camper in the bed, don't even really need the bags now with the stable loads and my current camper. Engaging the overload spring sooner makes a huge difference.

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#30 ·
Or you can make a set out of 4 plastic felling wedges and some square U bolts and just clamp them in place. I dadoed out a 1/8" deep slot for the strap on the u bolt so its flush with the surface of the wedge and gets 100% bearing on the spring.
Not only is is cheaper but Dodge/Ram leafs don't have a hole in them like the other mfgs and you have to drill the main leaf to put lower stable loads in. My idea of a fun project is NOT drilling 4 holes upside down through 1/2" thick hardened spring steel!
 
#14 ·
If the front end of your truck was still up 3/4" after the WD hitch was set then you don't have the hitch set-up right. The job of a WD hitch is to put the weight that was taken off the front when the trailer is connected, back on the front. You either don't have enough tension on the bars or the bars are not heavy enough for your trailer. The front of the truck should end up in the same place after the hitch is set as it was before you connected the trailer.
 
#28 ·
This is correct. Air bags, etc do not fix the problem. A slight rear squat is fine. And anticipated by factory.

Simple explanation is that front axle should weigh the same before and after hitching. Measurements are okay, but rough. Need to use CAT Scale. (This is the starting point for hitch adjustment. The baseline. I go higher, but do not exceed Axle or Tire rating).

Of what is more important to correct, nose high trailer or truck rear squat, it's the first.

Go to a hitch specialist to get trailer level after doing below. (May need to re do afterwards).

And, tongue weight is measured at the ball , not the jack.

Load truck and trailer as if for a trip. Full fresh water and propane too. Same for truck. Use sand bags to simulate passengers.

At Cat Scale, three readings:

1) All hitched tight according to fender measurements made back home.

2) Across Scale with no tension on spring bars; slack

3). Park trailer and cross Scale with truck solo.

Axle should be same in 1 & 3.

TW is difference on rear axle between 2 & 3

Tire pressure is according to Load & Pressure Table based on 1. Too high is bad idea. Within 5-lbs over of Table and Factory door sticker.

Trailer tires are ALWAYS at sidewall maximum. L & P Table DOES NOT apply to trailer service.

My 2500 is right at "maximum" 9000-lbs with my 35' TT. All is level and checks on scale. Rear of truck down a hair.

Been doing this over forty years. Take your time, get right tools and helper. Use pro shop to get Hitch corrected (better hitch receiver, too, IMO).

Fingertip steering is goal.

Brake controller should be at least a Prodigy 2.

New Bilstein shocks on truck. Add shocks with kit to trailer if not so equipped. Same for better equalizers.

Stock tire size and ride height is always best. Any changes makes towing worse. Michelin LTX or Bridgestone Duravis best tire choice.
 
#15 ·
I got hold of a tongue weight scale, and will be checking that the next time I have a chance. I also purchased some Timbrens after reading all the good reviews on them. I understand that they won't help with any of the initial sag since they don't even come into play until they even touch the axle, and then some.

I also remembered that I had 600lbs of sand bags in the bed of my truck the day I hooked up the camper. It didn't occur to me at the time because I didn't even look in the bed (those bags ride in there all winter, so I tend to just forget about them). That likely contributed to the extra sag I'm sure, though I'm still surprised that it would have been that much. Assuming my tongue weight was correct at about 10%, that would put about 650lbs + my sand bags equals 1250 lbs in the bed. Would 1250 lbs in a truck with a payload of 2250 have squatted it that much?

When I get a weekend day with a few hours, i'll air up my truck tires to what I would for a regular tow trip (to eliminate that it is underinflated tire pressure), remove my sand bags, weight the tongue, and try making some adjustments on the hitch. That should solve this once and for all.
 
#16 ·
Most definitely. But this still doesn't change the fact that any WD hitch must be configured and adjusted correctly for the specific truck and trailer its used on. :thumbup:
 
#17 ·
Your truck springs are progressive. That's how the manufacturer achieves a reasonably good ride. As you load the truck the rear will squat most initially. As the springs compress the rate becomes stiffer. I'm not at all surprised at your results. My 3500 will change the hitch hight on my snow plow by almost two inches with 900lbs of sand at the tailgate. By contrast, 3000lb tongue wt on my GN only moves it another inch.
 
#18 ·
By the way, if you do get air bags, and want simple and easy, you DO want the compressor and either in-cab or wireless remote controls.
It's a pain to have to find air whenever you put something heavy in or hitch your trailer.
It's super easy to press a button and dial your ride height to wherever you want, wherever you are.
Those spring blocks can't do that, and they can give you a harsh ride when empty. That why I don't like them.
 
#19 ·
You can add the air compressor later to get started. I have always had the fill valves near my license plate and in construction there is always an air compressor with me full of air. The compressor is certainly nice but the kits can be done in stages as budget allows.


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#20 ·
I checked the hitch adjustment, and then moved some things around to take some weight off the tongue, and here is the final result.

Went to the scale and the trailer weighed 6240 (there was no water and pretty empty inside). The tongue weight scale shows me at 860-880lbs. The scale says it has a 3% margin of error, so calculating that in, my real world tongue weight is somewhere from 13.3%-14.5%. That is slightly higher then I would desire (prefer 10%-12%), but it is still within what is considered appropriate and safe range. I'll have to recheck the tongue next time it is FULLY loaded with water and everything (usually runs around 6800-7000lbs at that point) and see if the location and weight of the water and other gear changes the tongue positively or negatively. If it bumps me over 15%, then I will have to figure out how to relocate some of the remaining items I have in the front passthrough storage compartment to see if I can bring the tongue weight back down a little.

I would say everything is sitting fairly level. I wouldn't say it really looks squatty per say. The rear sagged about 1 3/4" when I hooked up the trailer. The front went up about 3/4". That is with the weight distribution bars. That is of course with no passengers in the pickup, and no gear in the bed (bikes, water jug, spare batteries, etc...).

I did notice that the trailer is roughly 1/2" - 3/4" higher in the front then in the rear. I don't really have a good way to adjust that though because the next hole on the hitch would probebly make the front lower then the back. So I think I will just leave it be. I don't think that little but higher in the front is terrible.
 

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#21 ·
The second photo looks pretty level...


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#22 ·
I wouldn't be concerned. The truck/trailer looks pretty good as she sits. Next time out, see if the Steering seems light/loose. If not, I'd say you got it dialed in pretty good.
 
#25 ·
Can you post a pic of you WD hitch hooked up and not hooked up.

Im just guessing but im betting not enough angle on the cam the plate the ball hooks to needs to be angle down.

when i towed med i have a slight angle on it when i moved cross country i had the angle maxed out with added washer trailer weight 25k tongue weight 1800-2000 truck sat level its was a stock 2012 2500 6.7 towed 3000 great miles.
 
#27 ·
Are you sure the previous owner didn't remove any leafs a 6500lbs trailer should be a cakewalk for that truck, especially with a wd hitch
 
#29 ·
I just got off the phone with Reese, the maker of my weight distribution hitch (it is a Reese adjustable ball-mount head with round bar weight distribution and dual cam sway control). I explained my entire setup, my trailer weight, tongue weight, my measurements on the vehicle front and rear, the trailer measurements, everything. Based on everything I told him, he said he is 100% sure that I have the ball-mount head adjusted incorrectly. My ball is straight up/down. The preferred ball angle for the round bar weight distribution hitch I have is with the ball at a slight angle away from the tow vehicle (toward the trailer). The angle is what determines how quickly the spring bars start to work. The more ball angle, the sooner they work. So with the ball being basically straight up and down, the spring bars are just barely starting to work once my tow vehicle has already squatted down. What should be happening is the load bars should begin working before the tow vehicle begins to squat so that the vehicle stays flat, and the bars distribute more and more of the load as the weight is applied. He said I should not see the front of my town vehicle going up at all. It should stay the same as it was unloaded, and/or should even come down some (meaning the weight is being evenly distributed).

He confirmed his hypothesis when he asked how many chains I have used/free on the spring bar connection to the trailer frame. I have 5 free links, and 4 used links (there are 9 links total). He said when that particular hitch is set up correctly, you will almost always have only 3 or 4 free links, with the rest being used. The fact that I have 5 free links was another indicator that my spring bars are just barely starting to work after all the weight is already on the hitch because it shows that I am having to go deeper into the chain links to even get any tension on the bars.

So when I get a chance this week or weekend, i'm going to adjust the cams on the ball-mount head and tilt the ball slightly away from the truck. See if that improves things.


Also, to answer 5.9Nick7.3's question above, yes the leaf pack is stock. It was never modified.
 
#39 ·
I have the same hitch, and always had 3 free links. I didn't research it at all, I guess I got lucky with my initial set up. It always made a big difference when I towed with my Tundra or Rubicon. With my 3500, it is gathering dust in the shop. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good! Glad you got it figured out!
 
#31 ·
Ok, I made the adjustments that I described a few posts up - tilted the ball/head away from the tow vehicle so the spring bars are tilted down slightly so they can start to transfer weight sooner as they are brought up into place. I also lowered the entire head down 1 position to allow the trailer to sit more level. I now have 4 free chain links just as Reese described. The load bars are parallel with the frame of the trailer. Everything looks good.

Back: The back of the truck went down 1.5" from the unloaded height when the trailer was placed on the ball. Then when the load bars were applied, it went back up .25". So total squat with the load bars is only 1.25".

Front: Front went up .5" from the unloaded height when the trailer was placed on the ball. Then when the load bars were applied, it went back down .5" So the front is exactly the same height it was when I started.

So overall, I think I have it dialed in now. Amazing what having the weight distribution setup correctly can do. Glad I took the time to get it right.

Here's some pics.
 

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