air to fuel ratio

mock12v · 07-19-2007, 06:14 AM

ok well im not a idiot when it comes to trucks....but diesels....thats a little different story or things with turbos....if i add more diesel(ie. sliding my fuel plate, turning star wheel ect) do i need to add more air to actually get something out of it or will i be alright with the stock air box. and what is a wastegate!

Last edited by 1-TON : 07-21-2007 at 07:08 PM.

**Duluth Diesel** · 07-19-2007, 06:18 AM

You'll need more air. Diesels are just giant air pumps. The easier you can get air in and out, the better. On the exhaust side, diesels like nothing more than blowing into a vacuum. Smaller exhaust - backpressure - does not build torque like in gassers. Your stock airbox will quickly become a restriction as you move past stock power levels. I run an ICEBOX intake with a Nanofiber filter.

A wastegate relieves excess boost pressure from the turbo. Some are spring controlled, some are vacuum controlled, some are electronically controlled. And some turbos have them, some don't. Confused yet?

-Chuck

__________________
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mock12v · 07-19-2007, 08:33 AM

lol well i guess that answers my question......but my next one is..................do i have the most pain in the break off screw or are they all like that...cuz i tried for bout an hour to get it to break free....and all i did was tear the head up......any ideas cuz im all out....i tried the chisle,the torx, and a screw driver

**Duluth Diesel** · 07-19-2007, 08:49 AM

Hmm, sounds like we need a 12 valve guy to answer that one. My truck doesn't have the same pump that you have.

-Chuck

__________________
AMSOIL ONLINE STORE - DISCOUNT PRICING AVAILABLE
CLICK HERE FOR A FREE AMSOIL CATALOG

TWIN PORT SALES - AMSOIL SHIPPED DIRECT

THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS

INJEN Nanofiber Intake Systems

Dad · 07-19-2007, 09:47 AM

Generally speaking, in a turbo diesel, if you add more fuel, it will create more (and hotter) exhaust gases and the boost pressure will increase (as will the HP and torque.) If you have a waste gate, it will bleed off any boost pressure over the set amount and end the power escalation cycle. In your 12 valve motor, you also have a governor spring that will defuel the motor at 2,700 RPM's (I think) if it is a stock governor spring. Absent the waste gate and/or governor, the motor would build more power until it melted or the head blew off.

Also, the fuel itself is not mixed during the intake stroke like on a gasser. The diesel fuel is direct injected into the hot cylinder gases after compression. When the fuel hits the heated compressed air, it ignites. The power created by the combustion is determined by how much oxygen is there to burn. Any unburnt fuel goes out your pipe as black smoke. Getting this unburnt fuel to burn then leads to "what can we oxygenate the boost air with?"

A self-perpetuating cycle, just add fuel!

__________________
High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune
Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

**Duluth Diesel** · 07-19-2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad98.5

Generally speaking, in a turbo diesel, if you add more fuel, it will create more (and hotter) exhaust gases and the boost pressure will increase (as will the HP and torque.) If you have a waste gate, it will bleed off any boost pressure over the set amount and end the power escalation cycle. In your 12 valve motor, you also have a governor spring that will defuel the motor at 2,700 RPM's (I think) if it is a stock governor spring. Absent the waste gate and/or governor, the motor would build more power until it melted or the head blew off.

Also, the fuel itself is not mixed during the intake stroke like on a gasser. The diesel fuel is direct injected into the hot cylinder gases after compression. When the fuel hits the heated compressed air, it ignites. The power created by the combustion is determined by how much oxygen is there to burn. Any unburnt fuel goes out your pipe as black smoke. Getting this unburnt fuel to burn then leads to "what can we oxygenate the boost air with?"

A self-perpetuating cycle, just add fuel!

The guy's good.

__________________
AMSOIL ONLINE STORE - DISCOUNT PRICING AVAILABLE
CLICK HERE FOR A FREE AMSOIL CATALOG

TWIN PORT SALES - AMSOIL SHIPPED DIRECT

THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS

INJEN Nanofiber Intake Systems

mock12v · 07-20-2007, 05:43 AM

yeah thats pretty good.....how do i figure out if i got a wastegate or not.......so seeing how it is a stock gov. spring.....i can only get up to 2700rpm's before defueling is that gonna matter on say my i need lots of smoke to make me happy sitiuation

Dad · 07-20-2007, 07:14 AM

The waste gate is on the underneath side of the turbo charger. If you want smoke, the link below will take you to tech articles on anything you want to do to your fuel system. On the 12 valve, you can make mechanical adjustments that just add more fuel. Until the boost raise, it will produce copious amounts of back smoke.

http://www.cumminsdatabase.com/browse.php?mod=4&part=2

__________________
High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune
Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

oldestof11 · 07-20-2007, 07:18 AM

You can see a wastegate if you look at the turbo and see something stickying straight out of it with a round object at the end of it. What year is your truck? I am guessing between 94-98.5 (2nd Gen). If it is between 89-93 (1st Gen), you dont have a wastegate unless if was put on by the previous owner. The fuel plate is also not on a 1st Gen.

HTH,

Jon

__________________
Crashed! '93 Dodge 250 Club Cab
New Ride:1.9L, 201,000 miles, 97 Saturn SC1
31 MPG CITY! $25 to fill-up

Dad · 07-20-2007, 07:30 AM

Here is a link to a picture of a turbo from a 12v 94-98.5 model engine with a waste gate on it.

http://www.cumminsdatabase.com/image...es/charge1.jpg

__________________
High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune
Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

mock12v · 07-20-2007, 10:29 PM

wow thanks guys.......but does anyone have any better ideas on how to get that damn break off screw out....cuz i cant get the torx to work.....and the chisle just eats the piss outta the head of it and screw driver dont work

07-19-2007, 06:14 AM	#1 (permalink)
mock12v Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 12 mock12v's Truck Pics	air to fuel ratio ok well im not a idiot when it comes to trucks....but diesels....thats a little different story or things with turbos....if i add more diesel(ie. sliding my fuel plate, turning star wheel ect) do i need to add more air to actually get something out of it or will i be alright with the stock air box. and what is a wastegate! Last edited by 1-TON : 07-21-2007 at 07:08 PM.

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07-19-2007, 06:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
Duluth Diesel Twin Port Sales, Authorized Amsoil Dealer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Superior, WI Posts: 6,069 Duluth Diesel's Truck Pics	You'll need more air. Diesels are just giant air pumps. The easier you can get air in and out, the better. On the exhaust side, diesels like nothing more than blowing into a vacuum. Smaller exhaust - backpressure - does not build torque like in gassers. Your stock airbox will quickly become a restriction as you move past stock power levels. I run an ICEBOX intake with a Nanofiber filter. A wastegate relieves excess boost pressure from the turbo. Some are spring controlled, some are vacuum controlled, some are electronically controlled. And some turbos have them, some don't. Confused yet? -Chuck __________________ AMSOIL ONLINE STORE - DISCOUNT PRICING AVAILABLE CLICK HERE FOR A FREE AMSOIL CATALOG *TWIN PORT SALES - AMSOIL* SHIPPED DIRECT THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS INJEN Nanofiber Intake Systems**

07-19-2007, 08:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
mock12v Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 12 mock12v's Truck Pics	lol well i guess that answers my question......but my next one is..................do i have the most pain in the break off screw or are they all like that...cuz i tried for bout an hour to get it to break free....and all i did was tear the head up......any ideas cuz im all out....i tried the chisle,the torx, and a screw driver

07-19-2007, 08:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Duluth Diesel Twin Port Sales, Authorized Amsoil Dealer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Superior, WI Posts: 6,069 Duluth Diesel's Truck Pics	Hmm, sounds like we need a 12 valve guy to answer that one. My truck doesn't have the same pump that you have. -Chuck __________________ AMSOIL ONLINE STORE - DISCOUNT PRICING AVAILABLE CLICK HERE FOR A FREE AMSOIL CATALOG *TWIN PORT SALES - AMSOIL* SHIPPED DIRECT THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS INJEN Nanofiber Intake Systems**

07-19-2007, 09:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Dad Administrator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,949 Dad's Truck Pics	Generally speaking, in a turbo diesel, if you add more fuel, it will create more (and hotter) exhaust gases and the boost pressure will increase (as will the HP and torque.) If you have a waste gate, it will bleed off any boost pressure over the set amount and end the power escalation cycle. In your 12 valve motor, you also have a governor spring that will defuel the motor at 2,700 RPM's (I think) if it is a stock governor spring. Absent the waste gate and/or governor, the motor would build more power until it melted or the head blew off. Also, the fuel itself is not mixed during the intake stroke like on a gasser. The diesel fuel is direct injected into the hot cylinder gases after compression. When the fuel hits the heated compressed air, it ignites. The power created by the combustion is determined by how much oxygen is there to burn. Any unburnt fuel goes out your pipe as black smoke. Getting this unburnt fuel to burn then leads to "what can we oxygenate the boost air with?" A self-perpetuating cycle, just add fuel! __________________ High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

07-20-2007, 05:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
mock12v Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 12 mock12v's Truck Pics	yeah thats pretty good.....how do i figure out if i got a wastegate or not.......so seeing how it is a stock gov. spring.....i can only get up to 2700rpm's before defueling is that gonna matter on say my i need lots of smoke to make me happy sitiuation

07-20-2007, 07:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
Dad Administrator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,949 Dad's Truck Pics	The waste gate is on the underneath side of the turbo charger. If you want smoke, the link below will take you to tech articles on anything you want to do to your fuel system. On the 12 valve, you can make mechanical adjustments that just add more fuel. Until the boost raise, it will produce copious amounts of back smoke. http://www.cumminsdatabase.com/browse.php?mod=4&part=2 __________________ High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

07-20-2007, 07:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
oldestof11 Cummins Fanatic Join Date: May 2007 Location: Down on the Farm in IL Posts: 139 oldestof11's Truck Pics	You can see a wastegate if you look at the turbo and see something stickying straight out of it with a round object at the end of it. What year is your truck? I am guessing between 94-98.5 (2nd Gen). If it is between 89-93 (1st Gen), you dont have a wastegate unless if was put on by the previous owner. The fuel plate is also not on a 1st Gen. HTH, Jon __________________ Crashed! '93 Dodge 250 Club Cab New Ride:1.9L, 201,000 miles, 97 Saturn SC1 31 MPG CITY! $25 to fill-up

07-20-2007, 07:30 AM	#10 (permalink)
Dad Administrator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,949 Dad's Truck Pics	Here is a link to a picture of a turbo from a 12v 94-98.5 model engine with a waste gate on it. http://www.cumminsdatabase.com/image...es/charge1.jpg __________________ High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

07-20-2007, 10:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
mock12v Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 12 mock12v's Truck Pics	wow thanks guys.......but does anyone have any better ideas on how to get that damn break off screw out....cuz i cant get the torx to work.....and the chisle just eats the piss outta the head of it and screw driver dont work