Air Filtration Results with Various Aftermarket Filters - A

[Gary - K7GLD]

Originally Posted by steved

Good luck, I could pull the filterminder into the red with my COMPLETE STOCK truck with less than 2k miles on it with a single WOT run (empty)...the 2004.5 filterhousing is very restrictive, but I guess you'll find that out...

steved

I had the same result with my '02 back when it was new - towed the 5er up a grade, WOT, and sucked the filter minder down 2/3 - all this with the stock air filter.

Switching to a K&N, and drilling the stock airbox for improved airflow volume eliminated that problem completely. Later additional engine mods motivated the move to the BHAF for even more airflow, mixed with better filtration.

No regrets to date...

ACTUALLY, I suspect the above 2 examples to be the biggest single reason some owners are impressed with some of the aftermarket air intake/filter setups - they are swapping out a sick STOCK intake setup for a setup with an improved air filter combined with some outside air capabilities, and assume that much of the improvement is because of that "special" air filter and greatly assisted by the fresh air intake. When in fact, the improved filter is quite likely the single greatest improver of performance, and the rest is pretty much useless as far as improved efficiency is concerned.

Let's face it, some guys THINK they are feeling "greatly improved performance" when they install fuel line magnets on their vehicles - "Seat-of-Pants" impressions more often than not, are WAYYyyyy off base from tested reality!

Further, the only reliable method *I* can think of to properly test some of these aftermarket intake setups, is with a Dynamometer installed inside a wind tunnel to fully simulate down-the-road conditions of vehicle airflow...

And I SERIOUSLY doubt ANY of the makers of the aftermarket stuff have ever done and documented that - at least I have never seen any such documentation. And anything LESS is meaningless

__________________
White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.

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Last edited by Gary - K7GLD : 10-12-2006 at 01:43 PM.

Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD

I had the same result with my '02 back when it was new - towed the 5er up a grade, WOT, and sucked the filter minder down 2/3 - all this with the stock air filter.

Switching to a K&N, and drilling the stock airbox for improved airflow volume eliminated that problem completely. Later additional engine mods motivated the move to the BHAF for even more airflow, mixed with better filtration.

No regrets to date...

ACTUALLY, I suspect the above 2 examples to be the biggest single reason some owners are impressed with some of the aftermarket air intake/filter setups - they are swapping out a sick STOCK intake setup for a setup with an improved air filter combined with some outside air capabilities, and assume that much of the improvement is because of that "special" air filter and greatly assisted by the fresh air intake. When in fact, the improved filter is quite likely the single greatest improver of performance, and the rest is pretty much useless as far as improved efficiency is concerned.

Let's face it, some guys THINK they are feeling "greatly improved performance" when they install fuel line magnets on their vehicles - "Seat-of-Pants" impressions more often than not, are WAYYyyyy off base from tested reality!

Further, the only reliable method *I* can think of to properly test some of these aftermarket intake setups, is with a Dynamometer installed inside a wind tunnel to fully simulate down-the-road conditions of vehicle airflow...

And I SERIOUSLY doubt ANY of the makers of the aftermarket stuff have ever done and documented that - at least I have never seen any such documentation. And anything LESS is meaningless

I agree...I find the aftermarket funny...you can make numbers say anything...I could easily picture an aftermarket intake maker comparing their new/clean system to a factory system with a completely plugged filter...it is all a marketing strategy.

As to the stock box...my first major mod to it was to simply change the element...it took a few runs to pull the filterminder in any after just swapping the filter. I then swiss-cheesed the airbox...to date I haven't moved the filterminder since (but that has been four filters ago too). I don't think it is working...but maybe it is and it's just not pulling in?

I talked to one 04 owner right after I bought mine (he hotshoted 5vr RV trailers, met him in OK getting fuel...it was a dark blue 3500DRW)...he told me he had been through 6 or 7 OE revamps of the factory system as he kept sucking the filter into the inlet...I'm not sure why HE would have been the DCX guinea pig, but the system under his hood was FACTORY (had mopar PNs) and looked nothing like the current production 04+ trucks...it was actually a large cone filter (maybe a BHAF?) with a heat shield...it's been several years since that meeting...can't really remember too many details of the system other than it was more like an aftermarket system than a factory airbox.

I believe that simply doing the airbox mod netted me some significant mileage gains...I can't remember anymore how much...so far with all my mods I have went from averaging 15-17mpg to averaging 18-23mpg...but I doubt I will ever recoup the cost of the mods in fuel savings...

steved

[Gary - K7GLD]

I believe that simply doing the airbox mod netted me some significant mileage gains...I can't remember anymore how much...so far with all my mods I have went from averaging 15-17mpg to averaging 18-23mpg...but I doubt I will ever recoup the cost of the mods in fuel savings...

Don't be TOO sure!

The difference between 17 and 23 MPG amounts to 15 gallons of fuel in 1000 miles - and at the $3+ a gallon many of us have been paying for diesel, that's about $45 bucks worth of savings - nothing to sneeze at!

We're too used to thinking of fuel costs back at a little over $1 a gallon - and haven't adjusted our thinking to the reality of what fuel is costing TODAY - not to mention what it might be TOMORROW!

__________________
White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.

[AK RAM]

Originally Posted by steved

As to the stock box...my first major mod to it was to simply change the element...it took a few runs to pull the filter minder in any after just swapping the filter. I then swiss-cheesed the airbox...to date I haven't moved the filterminder since (but that has been four filters ago too). I don't think it is working...but maybe it is and it's just not pulling in?

That mod actually works pretty well. If you were to get with Fleetguard for the flow specs on the stock filter element, it's not that bad at all. It flows fairly well and filters really well. Most of the restriction in the stock intake system comes from the stock filter box that has you sucking through the fender, which is a closed cavity (if you have ever looked in there). Just opening up the stock airbox can help a great deal if your BOMBed. I remember back in the day (when the 3rd Gens first came out), we use to cut a 4" hole in the bottom of the airbox and with an aftermarket B1-2 turbo, could crank up the boxes on the dyno and run to about 425hp with 40+lbs of boost before the filter minder started to pull down.

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[RandyF]

Great Posts!!! Much knowledge. I went to my local Kenworth service shop a couple of hours ago (after my previous post) and bought a Fleetguard BHAF. Now, I'm loggin' on to good 'ol eBay, and buying an AFE Torque Tube.....I'm still going to eventually fabricate a box around the filter, if there's enuff room....

[SKDodger]

Well after the first tank after my BHAF, I have a 1 mpg increase, well worth the 20 bucks I have into it.

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'05 2500 4X4 610 6Spd Big Horn. Bully Dog Downloader, Silencer Ring MIA, Intake Tube Silencer MIA, BHAF, 6" Tuff Country, straight thru exhaust (Kept kitty), 37' Pro Comps, Nerf Bars, Custom front 3 place light bar, Pop-Up Goose Neck Hitch,

[ISX]

Just curious here, if I put a ram air on my truck and made it go say from the grill to a cone filter in a straight line and then straight to the front of the turbo, would rain or any water that got past the filter hurt the turbo? I wasn't sure if it would rust or if since the only chance of it sucking water in is when it is running that the turbo would dissipate the water too quickly to make half a crap??

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1990 F250 7.3 IDI NA auto 4x4 250k
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[D-Roc]

I will be sending in an analysis to Blackstone soon using my AFE Stage 2 standard media. If my silicon is high I will go to the Proguard 7 with the cover. Will post my results soon.

[Gary - K7GLD]

Originally Posted by ISX

Just curious here, if I put a ram air on my truck and made it go say from the grill to a cone filter in a straight line and then straight to the front of the turbo, would rain or any water that got past the filter hurt the turbo? I wasn't sure if it would rust or if since the only chance of it sucking water in is when it is running that the turbo would dissipate the water too quickly to make half a crap??

FIRST things first....

About how much "ram air effect" (increase in air pressure as measured at the turbo inlet) do you expect to get, and at what road speed? How large a cone do you think it will take to provide that boost - and what size ducting do you think it will take to properly channel the air to the turbo inlet? And finally, what is your HP goal after all this is done?

My guess is it will take a cone the size of a barrel, a duct at least 4 inches in diameter, and a road speed of at least 60 MPH to gain about a 2 psi boost and about a 10 HP gain as long as the speed is maintained...

I'd sure like to see a picture of the finished project...

__________________
White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.

Originally Posted by AK RAM

That mod actually works pretty well. If you were to get with Fleetguard for the flow specs on the stock filter element, it's not that bad at all. It flows fairly well and filters really well. Most of the restriction in the stock intake system comes from the stock filter box that has you sucking through the fender, which is a closed cavity (if you have ever looked in there). Just opening up the stock airbox can help a great deal if your BOMBed. I remember back in the day (when the 3rd Gens first came out), we use to cut a 4" hole in the bottom of the airbox and with an aftermarket B1-2 turbo, could crank up the boxes on the dyno and run to about 425hp with 40+lbs of boost before the filter minder started to pull down.

Actually, the OE filter was the large panel filter from DCX...I would hope it was NOT a fleetguard because they had glued the ends of the pleats together so that ALL the air was sucked through the "prefilter" guaze...this "glueing" had reduced the actual opening in the filter down to a 6 inch by 6 inch hole in the middle of the filter...by simply replacing THAT filter with a NapaGold (the closest parts house in Grants, NM), the filterminder didn't pull in as fast...

While the air box was restrictive, that filter was more restrictive...

steved

Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD

Don't be TOO sure!

The difference between 17 and 23 MPG amounts to 15 gallons of fuel in 1000 miles - and at the $3+ a gallon many of us have been paying for diesel, that's about $45 bucks worth of savings - nothing to sneeze at!

We're too used to thinking of fuel costs back at a little over $1 a gallon - and haven't adjusted our thinking to the reality of what fuel is costing TODAY - not to mention what it might be TOMORROW!

Hmmm...

$550 for the FASS, $80 for the RockTech, $1650 for the DT Kit...

That's a grand total of $2280...$2280/$45=50.7...50.7*1000=50,700 miles for payoff...assuming I can keep getting that kind of mileage...That's 1/3 of the mileage that I figured it would take to pay for the DT kit alone...

steved

[Gary - K7GLD]

Hmmm...

$550 for the FASS, $80 for the RockTech, $1650 for the DT Kit...

That's a grand total of $2280...$2280/$45=50.7...50.7*1000=50,700 miles for payoff...assuming I can keep getting that kind of mileage...That's 1/3 of the mileage that I figured it would take to pay for the DT kit alone...

ACTUALLY, I was referring to the cost of the BHAF conversion alone - naturally, if you or I tried to rationalize or do a cost savings on ALL our various mods, we'd be in deep trouble...

Let's face it, MANY of the mods we do MIGHT create some form of operational "savings" - but MOST are probably for the they put on our faces!

__________________
White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.