Selecting Gauges..

[Dad]

I have recently completed installing my gauges and have made some discoveries that I wanted to put out there. My intent is not to endorse or discredit any product or anyone's past decisions about gauges. This is just my experience.

I installed boost, pyro and fuel pressure gauges. The truck has a 5 speed, so I didn't need a tranny temp gauge.

Fuel Pressure Gauges: All are not created equally. I began my project with a mechanical gauge that requires the use of an isolator. With the isolator, you have diesel fuel on one side of it and anti-freeze on the gauge side which is run into the cab in a very small plastic tube. The tubing connects to the gauge and isolator with a brass compression fitting. Here is where my problems started. I could not get the plastic tubing to seal with the brass compression fitting. Too loose, it leaks. Too tight, the compression sleeve crushes the plastic tube and it leaks. Leave the truck out in the sun, anti-freeze expands and drip, drip, drip. I went through a half dozen compression fittings. IMO, these kits should use the next size larger tubing and include a brass insert to stick in the tube end to make the connection. These inserts are readily available in the hardware stores, but the tubing size is one size smaller than they make an insert for. The net result of this is air bubbles in the isolator line and incorrect FP readings. I have to wonder how many people have had this problem and spent lots of time and money trying to resolve FP problems that were caused by faulty readings from the gauge? I have had dialog with a couple of members while I was doing this that were having the same struggle. How faulty are the readings you ask? When I had the mechanical gauge in and fully primed with no bubbles I could detect, I never saw a reading over 10PSI. When the anti-freeze would leak out and air bubbles were in the line, it would go down from 10PSI. With no fluid at all in the line, it would read 3PSI. The presence of air bubbles in the isolator line cause the faulty readings, air compresses, liquids do not. I eventually gave up on the mechanical gauge and went with an electronic gauge. I did not change a single thing in the fuel system while making this change. Pulled the truck into the shop, the mechanical gauge read 7PSI. I installed the electronic gauge, turned the key on, the gauge jumped to 14PSI. While driving, the mechanical gauge would not change much at all. The air bubbles in the line caused by the faulty connection were "absorbing" the pressure fluctuations. With the electronic gauge, you can burp the throttle and see the needle bounce. If you want accuracy and peace of mind, go with the electronic gauge. With the mechanical, if you see low fuel pressure, the first thing you will have to do is take your gauge out and see if it has air in it. That said, I am sure there are lots of people that have had success with the mechanical gauge and have had no leaks. This is just my experience.

Pyro: For anyone contemplating drilling and tapping the pyro, don't sweat it. Make sure you know what size pyro you have and drill the correct size hole. There are 1/8 NPT and 1/4 NPT pyros. Make sure your tap is for NPT threads. As a test, I drilled and tapped a piece of wood to make sure everything was correct before putting a hole in my exhaust manifold. As for drilling, put some grease on that bit and drill. The metal is surprisingly soft. After you drill and tap, use a mechanics magnet and fish out the shavings. Start the motor and let it idle. Any particles will blow right on out before your turbo barely spins. There is an alternative theory about drilling while the motor is running and letting the exhaust blow the debris out the hole. I concluded that while the bit is penetrating and making debris inside the manifold, the hole would be blocked by the bit. I think what we can conclude is that the debris is very small, soft and the turbo isn't spinning with enough enough velocity to hurt anything. Thousands of these taps have been made without damaging the turbo. Either method will work and not harm your turbo. IMO, I would do it again with the engine off. Any debris can be fished out with the magnet. Otherwise, a broken off chunk of drill bit or tap WOULD damage the turbo if the engine was running.

Boost Gauge: Gen 1 trucks, there is a place to hook in right behind the IP. Gen 2 and 3, get a boost bolt. The boost bolt replaces one of the bolts in the intake manifold. It is very simple and easy to install this gauge. Seeing the boost come on and EGT's increase as load increase on the engine really tunes you in to what is going on under the hood.

Pillar Mount: I put my gauges in a pillar mount. I didn't want to drill in the dash or leave any tracks for when I trade it down the road. (No getting around that hole in the manifold though.) My install instructions directed me to attach the gauge pillar to the factory pillar trim. I actually removed the factory piece and fashioned my own way of attaching the gauge pillar to the truck. I used a painted metal screw and a grommet and screwed the pillar right to the truck. There is some nice metal under there to screw into. Down the road, pillar and gauges come out, factory trim goes back in.

If you are thinking about doing gauges, it's a good place to invest $300. What this $300 protects costs much more to replace.

__________________
High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune
Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

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Last edited by Dad : 07-13-2007 at 05:23 AM.

[Cumnspwr]

Good info for others looking into gauges. I've had zero problems with my Westach electric FP gauge for 2 years now. It's within 2 psi of a mechanical gauge. I stayed clear of a mechanical gauge because I didn't want any fluids ran into my cab.

Cumnspwr

__________________
2001 2500 4x4 GB Full Billet Auto
HTT Prostreet 66/14, 7X.012's, Some headwork, FMS, Smarty, Nitrous, Lots of other stuff! 750+HP

[Boosted]

I did it the easy way.. Edge juice with attitude...

__________________

99 Quad Cab 2wd 5spd

[CumminThru]

Excellent write up Dad98.5, I'm doin the copper tubing experiment later today..
I've heard of some guys not using the isolater but runnin a needle valve off the VP and just cracking it open a bit to sense pressure and of course if theres a fuel leak in the cab they just shut it down, still wont help the not sealing up at the guage issue we have been dealing with :fist:
I'll post up results later

__________________
Dan - Ontario Cummins Crew President Ontario Chapter
GONE but never forgotten - 2001.5 24V QC SLT Laramie 2wd 47RE/3.55, LB, ICEBOX w/4510, FBD 4" turbo back w 5x18 SS tip, silencer ring MIA, FASS 150, IIS HRVP, DiPricol 30 psi FP guage, 1 qt 2 stroke EVERY tank!! 16.5481 @83.29mph on 7/7/07
My new ride .... for now - 06 JEEP LIBERTY CRD. NO MODS, its a lease...

[CumminStrong]

Mechanical fuel gauges are a problem with the whole leaking problem. I had to fix my leaks about 3 times now because of the flange criping the line or it getting crushed. I fixed it and see how it holds but I am about done with this whole ordeal. I may just go with an electrical one by Autometer, like I should have in the first place!!

__________________
Stock 03 CTD 2500 4x4 SWB/Pyro-Boost-Fuel Pressure on Pillar/NV5600/ Amsoil lube & filter/HellBent Steel 2" leveling kit/Bilstien 5100shocks/Linex Smarty S-06/ B&W Hide Away hitch.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by CumminThru

Excellent write up Dad98.5, I'm doin the copper tubing experiment later today..
I've heard of some guys not using the isolater but runnin a needle valve off the VP and just cracking it open a bit to sense pressure and of course if theres a fuel leak in the cab they just shut it down, still wont help the not sealing up at the guage issue we have been dealing with :fist:
I'll post up results later

I am guessing you've made a few trips to the hardware store as I did. Did you seen those brass inserts I mentioned? I am pretty sure that would work if you get them and one size bigger of that think walled plastic tubing. I couldn't find that type tubing anywhere to try a bigger size.

__________________
High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune
Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

[Dad]

Originally Posted by CumminStrong

Mechanical fuel gauges are a problem with the whole leaking problem. I had to fix my leaks about 3 times now because of the flange criping the line or it getting crushed. I fixed it and see how it holds but I am about done with this whole ordeal. I may just go with an electrical one by Autometer, like I should have in the first place!!

I went with the Autometer electronic. Pricey, but accurate. It detects FP changes when you burp the throttle.

__________________
High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune
Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

[ben]

Dad,

Great write up

Whose mechanical FP gauge and isolator setup did you originally go with?

I have an autometer like that but the like from the isolator to the guage that contains the antifreeze is stainless braided line. I've never had a lick of trouble. It has remained within 1 lb compared to at the IP. The 1 pound variance is due to the thefact that the gauge is mounted a little higher than the isolator.

Before that I had an electric autometer setup that did not make it 7 miles after putting it in. Also at the time (few years ago) I believe autometer was not recommending their electric FP gauge/isolator setup for diesels. Vibration maybe?

Maybe they have got the issues remedied now. I have seen a few Autometer electric setups go belly up. But again, this was a while back.

Again, nice write up and enjoy staring at your new found info as you are going down the road.

__________________
01.5 QC ETH/DEE 4x4
DDP 4's, Smarty, Super B, Fass II/Vulcan, Hol'd Scotty II, Con ofe, 5" exhaust, Autometer Boost, Pyro, FP, and Trans 404/872

[Dad]

Originally Posted by ben

Dad,

Great write up

Whose mechanical FP gauge and isolator setup did you originally go with?

I have an autometer like that but the like from the isolator to the guage that contains the antifreeze is stainless braided line. I've never had a lick of trouble. It has remained within 1 lb compared to at the IP. The 1 pound variance is due to the thefact that the gauge is mounted a little higher than the isolator.

Before that I had an electric autometer setup that did not make it 7 miles after putting it in. Also at the time (few years ago) I believe autometer was not recommending their electric FP gauge/isolator setup for diesels. Vibration maybe?

Maybe they have got the issues remedied now. I have seen a few Autometer electric setups go belly up. But again, this was a while back.

Again, nice write up and enjoy staring at your new found info as you are going down the road.

I don't want to start a product bash. Let's just say if the kit you're looking at buying has a plastic tube and compression fittings, you might well run into leaking problems.

__________________
High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", A3000 turbo, DDP Stage 3 sticks, studded, 4" TB,, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune
Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

[Telluride]

Thanks guys, I've been debating way too long on what type of FP gauge to get and this thread is exactly the info I've been searching for. One question for you BEN...does your mechanical FP gauge make a ticking sound? I've read that sometimes they do that.

Cheers-

__________________
2001 2500 Sport 4x4 QC, 47re Auto, Skirted Gooseneck Flatbed w/ Headache Rack, Auto Meter Trans Temp, Fuel Pressure and EGT Guages, 4.10 Gears, Edge EZ Chip, Air Lockers front and rear, 1 oz. 2 stroke/gal. fuel Newest additions...ICEBOX w/ 4150 Nano and silencer ring MIA

[CumminThru]

Got busy doin a storm door replacement and didnt get to do the copper tubing experiment on my fp guage tonight....tomorrow is another day.

__________________
Dan - Ontario Cummins Crew President Ontario Chapter
GONE but never forgotten - 2001.5 24V QC SLT Laramie 2wd 47RE/3.55, LB, ICEBOX w/4510, FBD 4" turbo back w 5x18 SS tip, silencer ring MIA, FASS 150, IIS HRVP, DiPricol 30 psi FP guage, 1 qt 2 stroke EVERY tank!! 16.5481 @83.29mph on 7/7/07
My new ride .... for now - 06 JEEP LIBERTY CRD. NO MODS, its a lease...

[1-TON]

Well after reading what you say about the mechanical fuel pressure gauge I am wondering if my 2 inch air bubble is causing mine to read a wrong reading. Mine idles at 8psi and yours was 7psi. I have tried and tried to get that air bubble out but no luck.

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2005 RAM 3500, QUAD-CAB, 6-SPEED, 2WD, 50K MILES, MUFFLER IS MIA