*Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter - A

[millco]

I've really been enjoying mine!
I noticed today that they are leaking out the bottom of housing. I wonder why? I mounted mine to the engine (Just above the exhaust manifold). I have to wonder if the extra vibration from the motor is causing the gasket to leak? I don't think it is because of running the 'cartridge' too far as they have about 2,500 miles on them now. I checked the clamp and it is as tight as when I installed it. How do I know if it's tight enough?
Any ideas?
Dan

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06 3500 4x4 SLT 48RE Mega sized, Plus 2 micron fuel filter, Twin Frantz oil filters, Rokk CPS, BHAF, ARE shell, Well, it's up to 14+ MPG and of course there's a list of wants!
73 1210 2x4 Int'l - patiently waiting to become a Cummins! 76 Scout - looking for a 4BT!

[Gary - K7GLD]

Originally Posted by jcrich47

You mention mods to your filter. I would be interested in those as I have just ordered one.
Thanks
BTW GREAT write-up!!

I'd have to check - but thought my mods were included in the pics further back in the thread....

ANYWAY, as Steve said, on my Frantz and with the Scott TP I use, there is a gap between the Frantz core and the TP core - there is a raised piece at the bottom of the Frantz that is supposed to provide a seal for that situation, and prevent oil bypassing the TP cartridge and simply flowing down thru the gap at that point - but to be absolutely sure, I have included a couple of O-rings over the Frantz center post that is a snug fit between the 2...

It seems to work quite well, operating oil pressure "squeezes" the TP cartridge enough that when I change cartridges, the point of contact at the O-rings is clearly embossed into the inner core of the TP cartridge.



(By the way, the above photo also shows the added base filters mentioned further down to catch any stray paper fibers the TP might shed)

Another "mod", is to address any lingering concerns about small fibers and paper dust coming loose from the TP cartridge and entering the oil stream - not necessarily a big deal, since the oil return simply goes back to the sump, and any stray fibers would just get caught the next pass anyway - but on my setup, I have added a double thickness of 100 mesh brass screen, and also install several layers of coffee filter material at the base of the Frantz in my own effort to catch any such stray fibers as may be present.



The last "mod", is a stack of magnets that slip into the Frantz center post, put there to attract and hold any microscopic traces of Iron or similar metallic debris. It seems to have some value, since over a period of time, I have been able to detect and remove a fine layer of very smooth paste-like material from the magnets.



Every little bit helps!

I checked the clamp and it is as tight as when I installed it. How do I know if it's tight enough?
Any ideas?

The gaskets CAN get compressed over time, and need replaciment - also, check the flange of the filter canister for deformity or damage that might allow leakage - also remove the gasket, and carefully check for a defect or foreigh matter between that gasket and the surface under it for problems. In nearly 50 years use of these filters, I've NEVER had one leak! :thumbsup

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White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.

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Last edited by Gary - K7GLD : 10-10-2006 at 02:50 PM.

[Paccool]

Gary,

You are providing some good info and it will help folks to make a decision as to what system they want to use. I have the Amsoil system in mine but after looking at how clean your oil is , I might change over to one of these. I can change oil and both filters and within 500 miles the oil is already getting black from the soot. I can't even see the oil on the stick in your pictures!

I'm sure you already said but how often do you change the paper roll out? Can it run for 10 K miles or longer? Have you tried longer intervals with oil samples and if so, what did it show?

Stan

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Stan

93 D250, PDR Twins HX35&HT3B, 60+# boost,PDR stage 2 head w/o-rings, PDR Cam, modified VE Pump, piston style lift pump, modified 5" intake w/AFE, ATS ported manifold,DTT 89% converter, 4" RIP exhaust, modified tranny, EGT/boost/tranny/tach gauges, TPS removed, a little chrome under the hood. Mag-Hitec tranny and diff. covers. Rear sway bar. Line-x bed liner, after market seats. Front end rebuilt with new springs - 2 " taller now. Single stage Water/Meth system installed. Oversized intercooler w/3" IC lines.

05 Chevy 2500 HD, Duramax W/Allison, 17" Hummer wheels w/285-70-17 BFG's, modified air box, ported turbo mouthpiece. Predator programmer.

[Gary - K7GLD]

FIRST, I should have pointed out in my last post, that while there's a POSSIBILITY my mods MIGHT help the performance of the Frantz, I have absolutely NO proof they do anything other than make me feel good!

Stan, I usually change my TP cartridge out at anywhere from 2000 to 3000 miles, depending on truck use and what else I have to do at the time!

My oil USED to stay as clean as pictured earlier in this thread, and back when all I had as an engine mod was the COMP - but now with bigger injectors and the Smarty on top of the Comp - plus much shorter average driving trips than before, my oil will NOT stay that clean in the same mileage, period!

Regardless of that, I am confident my filtration from the Frantz IS removing it's share of nasty stuff, and keeping what particles that DO remain down into the harmless range of size as far as potential engine wear is concerned. That much has been proved by oil analysis and particle counts on the used oil.

One "plus" of the relatively frequent TP cartridge changes is that the oil added to make up for what the TP absorbs will effectively replenish depleted oil additives caused by normal engine operation, as clearly evidenced by my long-range 20,000 mile test with the Frantz and Delo 400 oil, where TBN and TAN were still excellent after 20,000 miles.

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White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.

[Gary - K7GLD]

AH - I see my last oil analysis and particle count is also missing from this thread - here's the oil analysis:



And here's the particle count they did on that same oil sample:



Not too shabby, in fact, better than lots of new, unused oils I have seen!

__________________
White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.

[millco]

Gary,
Have you had to change out the 'o-rings' that seal the can for bigger ones? I got my leak fixed. It was coming from between the can and the base. I thought I had the clamp on tight enough...... Maybe that is a good question to ask: How tight does the clamp need to be?
I just installed larger, round o-rings and it is fine so far. Of course the original gaskets didn't leak until after the first 2,k or 2,500 miles. This was a new install with new units. Both of them were leaking and both gaskets seemed soft and pliable. Neither one had any nicks or gouges either.......? Since the oil travels down the 'cartridge' to the bottom of the can, I would think there wasn't much pressure there on the gasket. The restrictor orfrice was on the inlet at the center of the base; wasn't it?
Any other ideas you have about this would be appreciated. I have even theorized that the vibration of the motor could be too much for them (They are mounted to a bracket that holds them above the exhaust manifold). I just can't figure why they would leak like that.........
Dan

__________________
06 3500 4x4 SLT 48RE Mega sized, Plus 2 micron fuel filter, Twin Frantz oil filters, Rokk CPS, BHAF, ARE shell, Well, it's up to 14+ MPG and of course there's a list of wants!
73 1210 2x4 Int'l - patiently waiting to become a Cummins! 76 Scout - looking for a 4BT!

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary,
Have you had to change out the 'o-rings' that seal the can for bigger ones?

In all the time I've run the Frantz - one of those pictured on my truck is over 40 years old - I have only replaced ONE of the base gaskets - and that was after it had been removed from a previous vehicle many years earlier, and then sat in storage for about 20 years before being installed on my '91 Dodge. The original seal had begun to show small hairline cracks around it's surface - but no actual leakage as I recall. I replaced the old one with another stock Frantz replacement.

I dislike the knob-tightening design of later units, and use the lever type on both used on my truck now - I had tried the knob type earlier, some of my older pics might still show that one - but now that one has been "retired"...

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White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.

[04ZX10R]

What are the Frantz kits going for?

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'08 extended cab Big Horn edition 4x4, bone stock..

[derherr65]

$145 for the cannister and $200 for a ready to go but generic kit.
https://vs01.tvsecure.com/~vs01037/orders/index.htm

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2001 Ram 2500, ext cab, cummins, 5spd, 237k miles. Silencer ring MIA.
2003 Ram 3500, crew cab, cummins, 6spd, 137K miles.(girlfriends)
1965 Mustang... mostly stock

[Gary - K7GLD]

It should be pointed out that what TP filter critics usually intend and use as ammo AGAINST the use of TP - the ability of TP to absorb water - is actually one of it's greater assets!

IF you drive a vehicle in unusual climates or short haul operation, you very well MAY accumulate excess water in your engine - WHAT are you going to do about it?

You CAN change the oil every week or 1000 miles to flush out the accumulated water - or you can just ignore the issue, and accept the greatly accelerated problems the excess water will cause steadily inside your engine...

Is that REALLY what to want in a vehicle that may have cost you several 10's of thousand dollars? There IS another solution!

Sure, TP will absorb more water out of your oil than a conventional filter - why not USE that ability to your advantage? In a scenario where excess water is condensing in your engine, a TP filter can be used. along with accelerated change intervals that will allow the excess water to be absorbed and removed on a scheduled basis - and you would obtain *2* benefits - your oil would be kept water free, and the increased TP change intervals would most certainly also keep your oil far cleaner than typical longer intervals.

Nor is it likely in such situations that the TP cartridge will instantly turn to mush or fall apart as soon as a few drops of water hit it - Frantz used to ship examples and pictures of special conditions users might encounter - higher than normal internal engine moisture condensation was one of those. And unless the oil supply was virtually FULL and loaded with water, the TP can safely handle quite a bit, usually easily enough to track and allow a user to establish a shorter change interval that will work best in his specific situation - and if crankcase water accumulation goes beyond what a TP cartridge can reasonably handle in a reasonable interval, there are far WORSE problems facing the vehicle owner than the brand/type bypass filter in use!

TP water absorption is not a liability, used in a properly monitored inspection and maintenance schedule, it's an asset that CAN be of great added benefit for vehicles operating in unusually damp climates or short-haul situations!

__________________
White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.

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Last edited by Gary - K7GLD : 01-31-2007 at 04:10 PM.

[Duluth Diesel]

Also be sure to consider the AMSOIL bypass filtration kit. Prices are listed on AMSOIL's website, but PM me if you are interested in lower pricing on these units, which are a kit specific for Cummins engines, which makes install easy.

-Chuck

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Change your thinking, not your oil.

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Last edited by HOLYSMOKES : 01-20-2008 at 08:46 PM. Reason: advertising

[Gary - K7GLD]

Originally Posted by Duluth Diesel

Also be sure to consider the AMSOIL bypass filtration kit. Prices are listed on AMSOIL's website, but PM me if you are interested in lower pricing on these units, which are a kit specific for Cummins engines, which makes install easy.

-Chuck

ABSOLUTELY, for guys not wanting the small extra mess and effort common to TP filters like Motorguard and Frantz, the spin-on types like Amsoil are an excellent alternative. :thumbsup

__________________
White '02 Quad cab, NV5600, GAUGES! Comp, Walbro, DTT SS intake, Rip's 4 in. exhaust, Don M's 1.6's, DSS, Frantz oil bypass & fuel filters, Amsoil air filter, MOBILE Ham Radio-IC-706, 600 watt amp, '88 Kit 24 ft. 5er, 418 HP/978 Tq., 24 ft KIT 5er.