Bhaf - Page 2

RJF · 08-09-2006, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superduty

I don't mean to dis your product, but in air filters, larger is generally better, larger giving more air flow and more dust holding ability. Never the less, I will keep an open mind and await your numbers.

Not exactly, you have to remember that the filter medias are completely different.

A Chevy gas 454 block is a 7.4litre V8, so it must make a bunch more power than our smaller 5.9 litre little 6's....right?

The BHAF is a paper element, and is 2.5" thick. The synthetic nanofiber media material is half that thick, but still filters very well. As far as storage for dirt, you've got me there, a BHAF should be able to hold more material with it's larger mass....BUT, the Amsoil filter can be blown out and reinstalled.:thumbsup

I appreciate the patience on the numbers, I wasn't a happy person on the phone this morning.:fist:

__________________
2006 3500srw Mega cab, laramie, Bully Dog PMT &RFI, 6" lift/35's.
2001.5 Ram 2500 4x4. Red Sport LB QC, black leather, billet everything. Edge HOT Juice/MBRP5"exhst/BHAF/Axiom &Suncoast trans, Amsoiled up

Last edited by RJF : 08-09-2006 at 04:17 AM.

RJF · 08-09-2006, 04:16 AM

"We don't have CFM flow measurements yet (I'm working on it) but we do know that the Donaldson media flows more CFM per square inch of filter media that pretty much everything out there (that still filters work a dang). Everyone wants a physically larger filter, but size doesn't equal performance. If that were the case, 7.3 PSDs would spank our little 5.9s. Since the filter media flows more CFM per square inch compared to paper/cellulose, it is worth at least considering that this filter, although small, could match or beat the CFM from a BHAF. From what we are seeing based on EGTs and seat of the pants, this may indeed be the case. Look at a BHAF. That filter media is 2.5 inches thick. 1 square inch of that 2.5 inch thick media doesn't flow as well as the Donaldson Endurance media, which is about 0.125 inches thick. Believe it. 1 square inch of the Donaldson media flows more CFM, so a physically huge filter isn't necessary. The BHAF is that big because it has to be to overcome the poor flow characteristics of 2.5 inches of paper."
-Duluth

"The main advantage AMSOIL is promoting with the new Ea air filters is that they are more efficient, with some advantages in air flow over cellulose filters and, in fact, over TS as well. If we went head to head with K&N the Ea air filter would most likely not flow quite as well, but better than cellulose filters. To better serve our dealers and customers, AMSOIL partnered with worldwide leaders in filtration to develop the EaA nanofiber filter (read: Donaldson). The EaA filter offers higher efficiency and better airflow than foam, oil wetted gauze, and conventional cellulose filters. The EaA filters offer less restriction than the foam filters, at 200 scfm the restriction is 0.8 inches of water, while the foam filter is 1.1 inches of water, the oil wetted gauze filter is 0.6 inches of water at the same volume of air flow. Using SAE J726 (ISO5011) test protocol and employing a mixture of A2 Fine Test Dust and carbon black to simulate on highway driving conditions, and cumulative efficiency is 99.5%. Oil wetted gauze filters, when tested with course test dust, have an efficiency of 99.1% while the foam filter was 99.5%. This testing was conducted at Southwest Research Institute. The average pressure differential fro the EaAU filters (read: the whole product line average) was 4.7 inches of water at 450 scfm. The Fleetguard AH19037 (read: BHAF) was not tested. The Ea air filter line will withstand water per normal operating conditions but are not meant to be submerged or washed. Due to the fact the AMSOIL EaAU filter is high efficiency (removes more dirt), it will have a larger pressure differential than wetted gauze versions.

Regards,
Richard Holappa, Jr.
Technical Product Manager: Filtration
AMSOIL INC.

__________________
2006 3500srw Mega cab, laramie, Bully Dog PMT &RFI, 6" lift/35's.
2001.5 Ram 2500 4x4. Red Sport LB QC, black leather, billet everything. Edge HOT Juice/MBRP5"exhst/BHAF/Axiom &Suncoast trans, Amsoiled up

millco · 08-09-2006, 07:16 AM

I also don't want to sound like I'm knocking anyone's product. I'm not. I do want to warn everyone to go out and check there filter's efficiency. I have had a few different filters on my two Cummins now and have noticed quite a difference between them.

Go out and pull the tube off of your turbo's inlet. Take a clean, WHITE, paper towel and wipe inside the inlet of the turbo and what you can get of the impeller fins. Don't tear the towel or leave any fibers behind; but, by wiping around in there a bit you will pick up any dirt that got by the air filter. I don't know why it won't accumulate anywhere else in the tube from the filter down to the turbo; but, it won't (Can anyone say why the intake tube stays clean and the dirt only seems to stick at the inlet of the turbo and on the impeller fins?). Now, take that towel and look at all the dirt you just wiped out of there and ask yourself if it's good for your engine

!

(I used one of those '99.5%' efficient filters and could not believe the dirt down there in just a few thousand miles. They did give a refund! And I think that filter is discontinued now. The BHAF I use now is still only about 99.8% or a little better; but, I get less dirt with it than what I got with the factory filter. So far the BHAF has been the least amount of dirt of anything I have used..... I also want you all to put the mileage numbers side by side for the different filters. I haven't noticed much of a difference there at all. So: are all we're doing with these 'better' or 'higher performance' filters is dusting our $10,k or more Cummins?).

This is only what I have been finding in my situation. I would like to hear from you all if you find the same thing (as far as how much dirt you find in the inlet of your turbo and mileage numbers with the different filters you are using). Who knows, maybe I am seeing it all wrong or something happened to mess up my 'evaluation'.
I just don't want to see anyone DUST their Cummins!
What did you all find doing this 'test' of mine? Should I post pics of my towel?
Dan

__________________
06 3500 4x4 SLT 48RE Mega sized, Plus 2 micron fuel filter, Twin Frantz oil filters, Rokk CPS, BHAF, ARE shell, Well, it's up to 14+ MPG

and of course there's a list of wants!
73 1210 2x4 Int'l - patiently waiting to become a Cummins! 76 Scout - looking for a 4BT!

TrueValue Truck · 08-09-2006, 09:08 AM

"Can anyone say why the intake tube stays clean and the dirt only seems to stick at the inlet of the turbo and on the impeller fins?). "

well....if ya think about it , the air has to get past the impellers in the turbo , so any dirt particles are getting slammed against the turbo inlet and fins.
Throw in the heat and speed of the turbo fins , and stuff is gona stick.....
there are some good write ups on here about air flow / filtration of various filters......from what I'v read , the BHAF filters very good(much better than stock) but the stock filter has better air flow than the BHAF.
It sounds like its very difficult to get the best of both worlds....more air AND better filtration.
I'll be watching this topic closely cause I'm still trying to decide what direction to go for the 06.
I was going to do the BHAF again , but want to see some more numbers.....

__________________
06 3500 SRW Mega Limo ,Smarty REVO TNT,Quad Commander,CFM Intake,Quad Monster Air COI,AFE Torque tube,II Silver 62/74/14,FASS 150 HPFP ,Straight Piped,BD Flex Plate,Goerend Triple Disc Converter and VB.Billet Input,Banks Power Brake with Smart lock

Ohio Coal Rollers

Cumminsforum.com

"The dogs hunger for the flesh of our enemies"

Superduty · 08-09-2006, 12:56 PM

"but the stock filter has better air flow than the BHAF."

That is absolutely wrong. It got propagated because people were throwing around flows without pressures. BHAF flows more than the stock filter.

See here for more info: http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...bhaf+superduty

The next time someone quotes a filter flow without a pressure, kick them in the a$$.

__________________
In Cummins we trust.

'99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod.
Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge.

I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ?

My diesel blog:
http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Superduty : 08-09-2006 at 01:03 PM.

jpuderbach · 08-10-2006, 09:51 PM

Been runnin a 2790 BHAF with and old smokey mount for a while now and its never done me wrong :thumbsup

__________________
'92 250, 2x4, getrag 5spd, autometer boost/pyro/oil press gauges, bhaf w/ "Old Smokey" mount, straight piped, fuel pump tweakage, makes black smoke!!:THREAT:

TrueValue Truck · 08-10-2006, 10:16 PM

Thanks for the info Superduty......I'm not anti or pro anything as far as air intakes go....just trying to decide what way to go on this truck......I had the BHAF on my 04.5 with the outerwares and got along fine with it.
I'm at almost 7k miles on this truck already and the filter minder is over half way to the red.
As far as egt's go , they are running in the safe range right now with the only mod being the muffler removed and the torque tube cleaned out.
I have been looking at either the BHAF again or the monster air intake with the green filter , but as I said , I'm still researching ............

__________________
06 3500 SRW Mega Limo ,Smarty REVO TNT,Quad Commander,CFM Intake,Quad Monster Air COI,AFE Torque tube,II Silver 62/74/14,FASS 150 HPFP ,Straight Piped,BD Flex Plate,Goerend Triple Disc Converter and VB.Billet Input,Banks Power Brake with Smart lock

Ohio Coal Rollers

Cumminsforum.com

"The dogs hunger for the flesh of our enemies"

08-09-2006, 07:16 AM	#15 (permalink)
millco Cummins Nut Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Idaho Posts: 347 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts millco's Truck Pics	Better go check your filter...... I also don't want to sound like I'm knocking anyone's product. I'm not. I do want to warn everyone to go out and check there filter's efficiency. I have had a few different filters on my two Cummins now and have noticed quite a difference between them. Go out and pull the tube off of your turbo's inlet. Take a clean, WHITE, paper towel and wipe inside the inlet of the turbo and what you can get of the impeller fins. Don't tear the towel or leave any fibers behind; but, by wiping around in there a bit you will pick up any dirt that got by the air filter. I don't know why it won't accumulate anywhere else in the tube from the filter down to the turbo; but, it won't (Can anyone say why the intake tube stays clean and the dirt only seems to stick at the inlet of the turbo and on the impeller fins?). Now, take that towel and look at all the dirt you just wiped out of there and ask yourself if it's good for your engine ! (I used one of those '99.5%' efficient filters and could not believe the dirt down there in just a few thousand miles. They did give a refund! And I think that filter is discontinued now. The BHAF I use now is still only about 99.8% or a little better; but, I get less dirt with it than what I got with the factory filter. So far the BHAF has been the least amount of dirt of anything I have used..... I also want you all to put the mileage numbers side by side for the different filters. I haven't noticed much of a difference there at all. So: are all we're doing with these 'better' or 'higher performance' filters is dusting our $10,k or more Cummins?). This is only what I have been finding in my situation. I would like to hear from you all if you find the same thing (as far as how much dirt you find in the inlet of your turbo and mileage numbers with the different filters you are using). Who knows, maybe I am seeing it all wrong or something happened to mess up my 'evaluation'. I just don't want to see anyone DUST their Cummins! What did you all find doing this 'test' of mine? Should I post pics of my towel? Dan __________________ 06 3500 4x4 SLT 48RE Mega sized, Plus 2 micron fuel filter, Twin Frantz oil filters, Rokk CPS, BHAF, ARE shell, Well, it's up to 14+ MPG and of course there's a list of wants! 73 1210 2x4 Int'l - patiently waiting to become a Cummins! 76 Scout - looking for a 4BT!

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08-09-2006, 04:16 AM	#14 (permalink)
RJF Cummins Enthusiast Join Date: May 2006 Location: California Posts: 482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts RJF's Truck Pics	"We don't have CFM flow measurements yet (I'm working on it) but we do know that the Donaldson media flows more CFM per square inch of filter media that pretty much everything out there (that still filters work a dang). Everyone wants a physically larger filter, but size doesn't equal performance. If that were the case, 7.3 PSDs would spank our little 5.9s. Since the filter media flows more CFM per square inch compared to paper/cellulose, it is worth at least considering that this filter, although small, could match or beat the CFM from a BHAF. From what we are seeing based on EGTs and seat of the pants, this may indeed be the case. Look at a BHAF. That filter media is 2.5 inches thick. 1 square inch of that 2.5 inch thick media doesn't flow as well as the Donaldson Endurance media, which is about 0.125 inches thick. Believe it. 1 square inch of the Donaldson media flows more CFM, so a physically huge filter isn't necessary. The BHAF is that big because it has to be to overcome the poor flow characteristics of 2.5 inches of paper." -Duluth "The main advantage AMSOIL is promoting with the new Ea air filters is that they are more efficient, with some advantages in air flow over cellulose filters and, in fact, over TS as well. If we went head to head with K&N the Ea air filter would most likely not flow quite as well, but better than cellulose filters. To better serve our dealers and customers, AMSOIL partnered with worldwide leaders in filtration to develop the EaA nanofiber filter (read: Donaldson). The EaA filter offers higher efficiency and better airflow than foam, oil wetted gauze, and conventional cellulose filters. The EaA filters offer less restriction than the foam filters, at 200 scfm the restriction is 0.8 inches of water, while the foam filter is 1.1 inches of water, the oil wetted gauze filter is 0.6 inches of water at the same volume of air flow. Using SAE J726 (ISO5011) test protocol and employing a mixture of A2 Fine Test Dust and carbon black to simulate on highway driving conditions, and cumulative efficiency is 99.5%. Oil wetted gauze filters, when tested with course test dust, have an efficiency of 99.1% while the foam filter was 99.5%. This testing was conducted at Southwest Research Institute. The average pressure differential fro the EaAU filters (read: the whole product line average) was 4.7 inches of water at 450 scfm. The Fleetguard AH19037 (read: BHAF) was not tested. The Ea air filter line will withstand water per normal operating conditions but are not meant to be submerged or washed. Due to the fact the AMSOIL EaAU filter is high efficiency (removes more dirt), it will have a larger pressure differential than wetted gauze versions. Regards, Richard Holappa, Jr. Technical Product Manager: Filtration AMSOIL INC. __________________ 2006 3500srw Mega cab, laramie, Bully Dog PMT &RFI, 6" lift/35's. 2001.5 Ram 2500 4x4. Red Sport LB QC, black leather, billet everything. Edge HOT Juice/MBRP5"exhst/BHAF/Axiom &Suncoast trans, Amsoiled up

08-09-2006, 09:08 AM	#16 (permalink)
TrueValue Truck Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,191 Thanks: 31 Thanked 38 Times in 24 Posts TrueValue Truck's Truck Pics	"Can anyone say why the intake tube stays clean and the dirt only seems to stick at the inlet of the turbo and on the impeller fins?). " well....if ya think about it , the air has to get past the impellers in the turbo , so any dirt particles are getting slammed against the turbo inlet and fins. Throw in the heat and speed of the turbo fins , and stuff is gona stick..... there are some good write ups on here about air flow / filtration of various filters......from what I'v read , the BHAF filters very good(much better than stock) but the stock filter has better air flow than the BHAF. It sounds like its very difficult to get the best of both worlds....more air AND better filtration. I'll be watching this topic closely cause I'm still trying to decide what direction to go for the 06. I was going to do the BHAF again , but want to see some more numbers..... __________________ 06 3500 SRW Mega Limo ,Smarty REVO TNT,Quad Commander,CFM Intake,Quad Monster Air COI,AFE Torque tube,II Silver 62/74/14,FASS 150 HPFP ,Straight Piped,BD Flex Plate,Goerend Triple Disc Converter and VB.Billet Input,Banks Power Brake with Smart lock Ohio Coal Rollers *Cumminsforum.com* "The dogs hunger for the flesh of our enemies"

08-09-2006, 12:56 PM	#17 (permalink)
Superduty Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 398 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Superduty's Truck Pics	"but the stock filter has better air flow than the BHAF." That is absolutely wrong. It got propagated because people were throwing around flows without pressures. BHAF flows more than the stock filter. See here for more info: http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...bhaf+superduty The next time someone quotes a filter flow without a pressure, kick them in the a$$. __________________ In Cummins we trust. '99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod. Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge. I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ? My diesel blog: http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/ Last edited by Superduty : 08-09-2006 at 01:03 PM.

08-10-2006, 09:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
jpuderbach Cummins Fan Join Date: May 2006 Location: California Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts jpuderbach's Truck Pics	Been runnin a 2790 BHAF with and old smokey mount for a while now and its never done me wrong :thumbsup __________________ '92 250, 2x4, getrag 5spd, autometer boost/pyro/oil press gauges, bhaf w/ "Old Smokey" mount, straight piped, fuel pump tweakage, makes black smoke!!:THREAT:

08-10-2006, 10:16 PM	#19 (permalink)
TrueValue Truck Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,191 Thanks: 31 Thanked 38 Times in 24 Posts TrueValue Truck's Truck Pics	Thanks for the info Superduty......I'm not anti or pro anything as far as air intakes go....just trying to decide what way to go on this truck......I had the BHAF on my 04.5 with the outerwares and got along fine with it. I'm at almost 7k miles on this truck already and the filter minder is over half way to the red. As far as egt's go , they are running in the safe range right now with the only mod being the muffler removed and the torque tube cleaned out. I have been looking at either the BHAF again or the monster air intake with the green filter , but as I said , I'm still researching ............ __________________ 06 3500 SRW Mega Limo ,Smarty REVO TNT,Quad Commander,CFM Intake,Quad Monster Air COI,AFE Torque tube,II Silver 62/74/14,FASS 150 HPFP ,Straight Piped,BD Flex Plate,Goerend Triple Disc Converter and VB.Billet Input,Banks Power Brake with Smart lock Ohio Coal Rollers *Cumminsforum.com* "The dogs hunger for the flesh of our enemies"