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Old 02-20-2012, 08:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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CNG in a diesel

Anyone out there have any experience running compressed natural gas in a diesel? I hear you can run 40% diesel 60% CNG.

Would love to here from anyone with experience.......

A group of my friends/business associates are trying to approach our utility company and get them to put a CNG filling station in our town. Many of us are even willing to invest money to help/show them that we are serious about this.

It is the dumdest thing I have ever seen in this country that we are sending billions of dollars every day to countries that hate us for their oil when we are sitting on the largest natural gas deposits in the world. Natural gas can run any gas engine and assist diesel engines as well. With a flip of a switch you can go back to pure gas or diesel so there is no worry of running out of fuel when you are far from the CNG filling station. It would give AMERICANS jobs and keep our money WITHIN our boarders! A GGE (gallon of gas equivelant) amount of CNG can sell for $1.15 and still make a nice profit for the utility company. Sure beats $3.59 (and going up) the price of gas at the pump. This savings will pay back the $1500.00-$2500.00 cost for the CNG kit that will need to be installed on the vehicle in very short time.

I would like our county/town to be the one to show how it can be done. Anyone with knowledge about CNG please put your 2 cents worth in here.

I am already kicking opec's annus by using WVO in my truck but for all the newer ones this would be an option to get away from the high cost of diesel.

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Old 02-21-2012, 04:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I am cuirous about this myself. Figured it would be similar to propane injection system.


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Old 02-23-2012, 01:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
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check out Deluca Fuel products...not a TON of info on their website, but you can email or call them and they are GREAT to talk to..don't mind answering any questions AT ALL
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I use CNG on my 2008, I love It I can make it from central Ohio to Texas on a single tank of diesel running empty ( not pulling a load). CNG cost about 70 bucks to fill up the tanks in my bed 3 times. It depends on hom much they are charging for the CNG per gallon. Also how good the pumps are where you fill up. How much psig they put out. The station here in Columbus is old and slow generaly on get a fill up of 2500 to 3000 psig at best. It does increase your fuel milage greatly though. I general put around 750 to 800 miles on a tank of diesel running around town or to work and back. The biggest cost is the tanks. They are very expensive. Around 3500$ per tank for new type 4 tanks. I have been running CNG for about 2.5 years as of now.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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As far as the price stated above of 1500 to 2500 for the kit. I am sure that would be with the older type 2 tanks at best. They are very heavy and will not hold much volume ie ( gallon of gas equilivant ) may be 5 or 6 gallons each. They also take up a lot of bed space. I had a total of 4 tanks in my bed at one time.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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As far as the price stated above of 1500 to 2500 for the kit. I am sure that would be with the older type 2 tanks at best. They are very heavy and will not hold much volume ie ( gallon of gas equilivant ) may be 5 or 6 gallons each. They also take up a lot of bed space. I had a total of 4 tanks in my bed at one time.
thanks for this info. I will have to educate myself on the differances of type 2 and 4 tanks.

One of the big topics in the circle of guys discussing the use of CNG right now is the law. Is it legal to run a non EPA certified kit? The differance in price of the non certified VS certified is HUGE!
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Also wanna ask....Are you only filling at CNG stations? We have non around our area which makes this CNG thing hard to do. What about the home fill fuel pumps like "PHILL" brand. Are they worth the money? Do they last?
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I priced the Phill a couple years ago and to buy one that would pump 1 gallon equilivant per hr. cost around 12 grand. The 2 tanks I have in the bed of my truck hold around 19 gallons together. That means it would take approximatley 19 to 20 hrs to refill and 12 grand to purchase also. Yes I do have a fill in station about 20 miles from my home. To the other ? I have never heard of a CNG police that will or can tell me that I can't run or add CNG to my truck. I did all the work on it myself, screwed up things and fixed them when I had the fund to do so. It was a very expensive learning curve. I am now past that I think and hope. The diffrence between type 1-2-3-4 tanks are - type 1 are all steel like an oxygen tank for your cutting torch, type 2 are steel ends with a very thick fiber glass wrap, type 3 tanks have an aluminum tank that is completely wraped in a heavy fiber glass wrap. Then the best 1 is the type 1 which is a complete carbon fiber wrap very light tanks. A type 1 tank that will hold 5 gallons of CNG will way in at 175 lbs, a type 2 with the same 5 gallon will way in at say 125 lbs, the type 3 will way in at 85 lbs for the same 5 gallons, then the type 4 will way in at 35 lbs or so. Hope that helps some.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Here is the rest of that thought. A type 1 that will hold the same 5 gallon will measure lets say 14" in diameter and 52" in length, now take that same measurement and make it a type 2 tank and you could put 6.1 gallons in it, then make it a type 3 tank and it would hold say 7.2 gallons and now a type 4 would hold 8.2 gallons. Now thats not a precise measurement but it is a good comparision for and some thing to thik about.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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been lookin at the differant types of tanks on line. Understand now. I see the type 4 tanks are dated. The closer to the date the less exspensive they are. Some guys are selling them on E bay for $250-$350.00 per tank that are near or past their expiration date. I also read that using one past this date is not that big of a deal because the spec is 15 years or 16,000 fill cycles which ever comes first. They are saying that no tank will see 16,000 cycles in 15 years so the spec is over conservative and it is not unsafe to go past the date. They are saying that if the tank has no visual damage it is good to use.

I know we are dealing with great pressures here but your thoughts on this? Seems a lot of people are doing it and nobody is blowing themselves up. That would make the conversion be in the price range I mentioned earlier.

Also is there any self fueling station that is faster than the PHILL priced reasonable. I am talking about a small group of guys going in on it so the cost isn't so bad per individual. It would need to have a storage tank so we could quick fill. I don't care if it takes all day to refill the storage tank because we could all have our own fill day and as long as we only filled one day per week we wouldn't be hurting each other. How would we know how many GGE'S we have taken each time we fill? We would need to know so that we all all paying what we need to be paying.

Without solving the "how do we fill" problem we will never get this to work.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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From my research you are correct on the tank life. All of my tanks are out of date at this time. I have no fear of them blowing up at least not now. The first time I drove to Houston Texas and filled up at one of there clean energy stations and I watched my pressure guage hit near 4500 psig and my daughter was sitting in the back seat of my truck, with the tank right up against the front of the truck box against the cab I almost made a mess in my pants! Scared me to death but the tanks held and I also reliesed that they do have P.R.D. on them ( pressure relief devices ). Anyhow back to your ? IMO to get a storage tank large enough for each one of you to fill up once a week would cost so serious $$$ I would not even know where to begine to give advice on that, You would have to take into consideration how much each truck woukd hold or be able to store ie 10. 15, 20 GGE then figure up how many of you there are wanting to do this. Also remember that the phill would only give you a gallon per hour reguardless of you storage capasity. If you look into it I am sure that they make a faster pump than the 1GGE but I have no idea how much it would cost ( sorry it's out of my check account availabity of funds.) How close are you to Indianapolis I know that they have a nice station there that I have used many times. I always get a full fill up when I stop there.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I am 3 hours from indianapolis. 2 hours is the closest CNG filling station. Needless to say....If i (we) don't install our own filling station this will never work. The group of guys that are looking into this are willing to kick in money as long as it gives a decent return. We are looking into a small fleet size filling station made by Ingersoll Rand. We think we will have $70-75,000.00 in it but divided up between all of us we would have less than all of us buying Phill's. It will also be much heavier built and last us longer than a bunch of Phill's. This station puts out 12 GGE per hour and comes stock with a 10K CF storage tank. The unit is expandable with more storage tank capacity. The key to this working is to schedual everyones fill times verses having enough storage capacity and not using more than what the pump can reclaim in between fill ups. This will be somewhat of a pain in the annus but it looks like it is our cheapest option. It will sure bet the heck out of paying the price at the pump for gas or diesel (we have both gassers and diesel drivers involved in this. Cars, trucks, businesses, individuals).

We really just want to run this first fill station at a break even so we all can save on our own fuel cost. If it works like we think then we would add more around our area and start educating people how they can save money. We would then try to make some money at these stations and make money installing converstion kits.

Good to here your comments about the dates on the tanks.

We have found a kit made by millinium that claims they don't alter the emmisions and although they are not EPA aproved you will not be breaking any laws installing them on your own (or other peoples) vehicles. Ever here of these guys?
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