For Anyone with Questions on Biodiesel

DerekSokolowski · 12-24-2007, 09:15 PM

My name is Derek Sokolowski, I currently work for a small Biodiesel facility, which is mostly a test facility; to make fuel for our trucks used by 2 other parent companies, (one is a grease processing plant.) We yield less then 2 million gallons per year, and try many new methods for the transesterification process. We have been producing Biodiesel for almost 2 years now, and have made the fuel from various types of feed stocks (soy, canola, vegetable oil, and other types of fats). Currently, I work in the lab and test the fuel, so if you need help with your own testing, or have any questions about the chemistry side of Biodiesel, then just let me know and I will be glad to help!

Also, I have been experimenting with different blends of the fuel in my truck since I’ve worked there. I know where you guys are coming from. Any questions you have about anything Biodiesel related, feel free to ask!

__________________
Silver 07' Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 5.9L
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/al...biodiesel.html

Last edited by DerekSokolowski : 12-27-2007 at 12:55 PM.

bentwings · 12-24-2007, 09:42 PM

So if we are makeing bio-diesel at home with the traditional Appleseed system and washing using the generally available equipment, can we be reasonably assured of water free bio-diesel??? Is there a good reliable testing proceedure??

__________________
'99 Quad cab 3500 SLT, dually, black, rwd, 5 spd, 4.10, brushguards, towing mirrors. fuel pressure gage, muffler lost, lift pump victim. now VP-44 victim , 19/20 mpg . Smarty
and yes... the plane will fly. older than dirt

gcessac · 12-24-2007, 10:06 PM

I have been using the caustic two step process and water washing. Drying occurs when heated up to 130 degrees F and circulated and filtered in the main tank. The 3/27 test doesn't show any undissolved mono or di glycerides. What is you opinion of this test and also the phlip test? Are you testing for others and if you are, what is the cost?

__________________
1996 2500 5 speed

DerekSokolowski · 12-24-2007, 10:16 PM

depends on how long you let it sit after the water wash cycle, with water being heavier then biodiesel, it will eventually settle out but you will always have moisture of some sort. I know there are titration procedures you can do to test for moisture in biodiesel, but they take sometimes hours! If your interested, I will look into them for you, but they may require some special equipment/chemicals. We test moisture with a Karl Fischer unit which is completely designed to test moisture in liquids, but that machine was in the $6000 range.

The only way to be reasonably sure of low moisture without testing equipment, is use a cone bottom tank, put your finished batch in there, and let it sit for a day or 2 then drain off the bottom again.

__________________
Silver 07' Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 5.9L
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/al...biodiesel.html

DerekSokolowski · 12-24-2007, 10:38 PM

We use the phlip test a lot with our process, as it is very simple to use and within minutes tell you if there is soap or not. I'm not very familiar with the 3/27 test, and have never done one myself. But from what i know it's not very accurate for what we need to know as a biodiesel producer. But for home brewers, it will give you a guideline with a yes or no answer. Biodiesel with very low, or no triglycerides will determine a good reaction, they are right about that. But there are some red flags, like how do you know if your biodiesel is water free? even ours has some traces of moisture and we don't even use the water wash system! I wouldn't trust the test, and it would not be useful for anyone to determine changes needed to make better fuel.

Edit: The reason they make you heat up the biodiesel and circulate, is to get the methanol to flash off. sort of like a distillation column.

As for testing, I have not yet decided if I will or not, it wouldn't be worth it to me unless I had a strong following of people who want their home brew fuel tested. Each analysis i do takes around 2.5hrs of labor and eats up as much as $80 in chemicals! Not to mention the cost for the use of equipment (GC unit cost around $40,000, moisture and methanol machines were about $16,000 together). I'm here to help out with any questions, but I'm not so sure how willing home brewers would be to hack up $100 bucks a sample so it can be tested. I would be willing to test samples in return for truck parts/accessories and take the costs out of my pocket...but again It would have to be worth it, to make it work.

__________________
Silver 07' Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 5.9L
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/al...biodiesel.html

Last edited by DerekSokolowski : 12-25-2007 at 01:55 AM.

Boilermakin' Josh · 01-15-2008, 04:01 PM

I have recently decided to go with either a 2001 or 02' Cummins, manual and 4X4. I live in Indiana so I am going to need a biofuel that runs pretty much in any condition.

I am a Purdue student and would like to either purchase or produce my own biodiesel.

My question is, what would be the best mixture to go with?

Soy? Peanut? and why?

**farmboysdiesel** · 01-15-2008, 05:12 PM

Glad to have you here. I am in the last steps to finishing up my processor. I'll have to post some pics so you can check it out. When finished, I hope to have the ability to process 250gal at a time.

__________________
Farmboy's Diesel Performance
FBD BUDGET EXHAUST
Products By: FBD, AirDog, Blue Chip, DDP, Smarty, TS, MaxSpool, HaloMax Springs, Grand Rock, Fluidampr, AFE, Edge, TST, MBRP, Industrial Injection, ARP, Auto Meter and More
704-290-2289
1999 Dodge 2500 4x4 II 66/FBD2 TWINS, 7in Stack, HTS/FBD Tranny, DDP Inj's, FBD Trik 3VP, HaloMax Springs, MaxSpool, NX SD2, Fluidampr, DragTST
Check out www.farmboysdiesel.com

ak_cowboy · 01-15-2008, 06:04 PM

Thanks for the offer. Fellow home brewer for 3 years now. So what I am hearing it that I really don't need to heat that high. I have always shot for the 120-140 range. That would definately cut down on the production time for me as in the winter it takes a while to get up to that temp. Also if you don't water wash, do you dry wash with silicate of what?

__________________
2006 2500 Mega Limo 5.9 CRD running homebrew Biodiesel
Triple Dogged w/ Outlook,2 inch level kit, Silencer ring.....MIA, AFE Torque tube, Amsoil BHAF 4510

1967 Dodge Polara 500 currently getting a face lift. 383ci .030 Edlebrock 750 carb, 484 lift cam @ 272 duration = 14.5 second land yacht!

Last edited by ak_cowboy : 01-15-2008 at 06:06 PM.

Hamdog16 · 01-18-2008, 07:14 AM

I'm new to the whole bio-diesel process and would like to get into producing my own. I was wondering if it is worth purchasing a processor already made or making my own? If so where can I get good intructions and parts list on making my own or what processor should I look into purchasing? Is there any place I can get a good description, step by step on producing biodiesel and testing it using either a homemade processor or purchased processor? Thanks!!!

febrocks · 01-18-2008, 08:40 AM

I've have yet not find any answer on biodiesel infopop. Bookmark it.

Biodiesel & SVO Forums - Powered by eve community

Eugene

__________________
98.5 2500 slt, 24v,quad cab,2wd, longbed, auto. amsoil air filter, II stage 2 injector, VA V5, stock straight pipe, fass hpfp. FP/pryo/trans temp gauge.

DerekSokolowski · 01-19-2008, 06:44 PM

Boilermakin' Josh - Soy feed stock is probably going to be your best bet in the winter, that has the lowest freeze point of any. I would stay away from running animal fats in the colder months. During the summer you can run B100 of anything assuming its a good product, if the temps don't go below 40* I would use low FFA animal fats because that would be the cheapest.

ak_cowboy - What part of the production process are you talking about regarding temperatures? We "dry wash" our biodiesel with Ion Exchange Resin, it's cheaper then setting up a water wash system, takes less time, and the resin lasts quite a long time before going bad.

Hamdog16 - The whole problem your going to encounter is cost. Is it worth it to spend $xx amount on a processor or build your own? Well from my stand point, you would have to do a lot of research before constructing your own processor if you want to produce a quality fuel. If you purchase a processor, it would be much less stressful and already be capable of producing good fuel. It's all up to you really, I would personally build my own processor because I know what is needed and all of the steps. For someone who doesn't doesn't have a good knowledge of biodiesel production, then I would buy one. Also look at Bioking, they have some pretty decent equipment.

__________________
Silver 07' Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 5.9L
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/al...biodiesel.html

ak_cowboy · 01-20-2008, 01:48 AM

Derek, I was referring to the mixing phase. I currently heat to around 130 when I mix the methodoxide into the oil. Does it have to be that high or does it matter. It just take a while to heat up to that temp here in Alaska. That is what I was refering to. Thanks

__________________
2006 2500 Mega Limo 5.9 CRD running homebrew Biodiesel
Triple Dogged w/ Outlook,2 inch level kit, Silencer ring.....MIA, AFE Torque tube, Amsoil BHAF 4510

1967 Dodge Polara 500 currently getting a face lift. 383ci .030 Edlebrock 750 carb, 484 lift cam @ 272 duration = 14.5 second land yacht!

12-24-2007, 09:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
DerekSokolowski Cummins Fan Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 35 DerekSokolowski's Truck Pics	For Anyone with Questions on Biodiesel My name is Derek Sokolowski, I currently work for a small Biodiesel facility, which is mostly a test facility; to make fuel for our trucks used by 2 other parent companies, (one is a grease processing plant.) We yield less then 2 million gallons per year, and try many new methods for the transesterification process. We have been producing Biodiesel for almost 2 years now, and have made the fuel from various types of feed stocks (soy, canola, vegetable oil, and other types of fats). Currently, I work in the lab and test the fuel, so if you need help with your own testing, or have any questions about the chemistry side of Biodiesel, then just let me know and I will be glad to help! Also, I have been experimenting with different blends of the fuel in my truck since I’ve worked there. I know where you guys are coming from. Any questions you have about anything Biodiesel related, feel free to ask! __________________ Silver 07' Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 5.9L http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/al...biodiesel.html Last edited by DerekSokolowski : 12-27-2007 at 12:55 PM.

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12-24-2007, 09:42 PM	#2 (permalink)
bentwings Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Saint paul Posts: 139 bentwings's Truck Pics	So if we are makeing bio-diesel at home with the traditional Appleseed system and washing using the generally available equipment, can we be reasonably assured of water free bio-diesel??? Is there a good reliable testing proceedure?? __________________ '99 Quad cab 3500 SLT, dually, black, rwd, 5 spd, 4.10, brushguards, towing mirrors. fuel pressure gage, muffler lost, lift pump victim. now VP-44 victim , 19/20 mpg . Smarty and yes... the plane will fly. older than dirt

12-24-2007, 10:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
gcessac Newbie Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 15 gcessac's Truck Pics	I have been using the caustic two step process and water washing. Drying occurs when heated up to 130 degrees F and circulated and filtered in the main tank. The 3/27 test doesn't show any undissolved mono or di glycerides. What is you opinion of this test and also the phlip test? Are you testing for others and if you are, what is the cost? __________________ 1996 2500 5 speed

12-24-2007, 10:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
DerekSokolowski Cummins Fan Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 35 DerekSokolowski's Truck Pics	depends on how long you let it sit after the water wash cycle, with water being heavier then biodiesel, it will eventually settle out but you will always have moisture of some sort. I know there are titration procedures you can do to test for moisture in biodiesel, but they take sometimes hours! If your interested, I will look into them for you, but they may require some special equipment/chemicals. We test moisture with a Karl Fischer unit which is completely designed to test moisture in liquids, but that machine was in the $6000 range. The only way to be reasonably sure of low moisture without testing equipment, is use a cone bottom tank, put your finished batch in there, and let it sit for a day or 2 then drain off the bottom again. __________________ Silver 07' Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 5.9L http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/al...biodiesel.html

12-24-2007, 10:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
DerekSokolowski Cummins Fan Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 35 DerekSokolowski's Truck Pics	We use the phlip test a lot with our process, as it is very simple to use and within minutes tell you if there is soap or not. I'm not very familiar with the 3/27 test, and have never done one myself. But from what i know it's not very accurate for what we need to know as a biodiesel producer. But for home brewers, it will give you a guideline with a yes or no answer. Biodiesel with very low, or no triglycerides will determine a good reaction, they are right about that. But there are some red flags, like how do you know if your biodiesel is water free? even ours has some traces of moisture and we don't even use the water wash system! I wouldn't trust the test, and it would not be useful for anyone to determine changes needed to make better fuel. Edit: The reason they make you heat up the biodiesel and circulate, is to get the methanol to flash off. sort of like a distillation column. As for testing, I have not yet decided if I will or not, it wouldn't be worth it to me unless I had a strong following of people who want their home brew fuel tested. Each analysis i do takes around 2.5hrs of labor and eats up as much as $80 in chemicals! Not to mention the cost for the use of equipment (GC unit cost around $40,000, moisture and methanol machines were about $16,000 together). I'm here to help out with any questions, but I'm not so sure how willing home brewers would be to hack up $100 bucks a sample so it can be tested. I would be willing to test samples in return for truck parts/accessories and take the costs out of my pocket...but again It would have to be worth it, to make it work. __________________ Silver 07' Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 5.9L http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/al...biodiesel.html Last edited by DerekSokolowski : 12-25-2007 at 01:55 AM.

01-15-2008, 04:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Boilermakin' Josh Newbie Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5 Boilermakin' Josh's Truck Pics	I have recently decided to go with either a 2001 or 02' Cummins, manual and 4X4. I live in Indiana so I am going to need a biofuel that runs pretty much in any condition. I am a Purdue student and would like to either purchase or produce my own biodiesel. My question is, what would be the best mixture to go with? Soy? Peanut? and why?

01-15-2008, 05:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
farmboysdiesel Farmboy's Diesel Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NC Posts: 6,437 farmboysdiesel's Truck Pics	Glad to have you here. I am in the last steps to finishing up my processor. I'll have to post some pics so you can check it out. When finished, I hope to have the ability to process 250gal at a time. __________________ Farmboy's Diesel Performance FBD BUDGET EXHAUST Products By: FBD, AirDog, Blue Chip, DDP, Smarty, TS, MaxSpool, HaloMax Springs, Grand Rock, Fluidampr, AFE, Edge, TST, MBRP, Industrial Injection, ARP, Auto Meter and More 704-290-2289 1999 Dodge 2500 4x4 II 66/FBD2 TWINS, 7in Stack, HTS/FBD Tranny, DDP Inj's, FBD Trik 3VP, HaloMax Springs, MaxSpool, NX SD2, Fluidampr, DragTST Check out www.farmboysdiesel.com

01-15-2008, 06:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
ak_cowboy Biodiesel Cult Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 444 ak_cowboy's Truck Pics	Thanks for the offer. Fellow home brewer for 3 years now. So what I am hearing it that I really don't need to heat that high. I have always shot for the 120-140 range. That would definately cut down on the production time for me as in the winter it takes a while to get up to that temp. Also if you don't water wash, do you dry wash with silicate of what? __________________ 2006 2500 Mega Limo 5.9 CRD running homebrew Biodiesel Triple Dogged w/ Outlook,2 inch level kit, Silencer ring.....MIA, AFE Torque tube, Amsoil BHAF 4510 1967 Dodge Polara 500 currently getting a face lift. 383ci .030 Edlebrock 750 carb, 484 lift cam @ 272 duration = 14.5 second land yacht! Last edited by ak_cowboy : 01-15-2008 at 06:06 PM.

01-18-2008, 07:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
Hamdog16 Cummins Fan Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 96 Hamdog16's Truck Pics	I'm new to the whole bio-diesel process and would like to get into producing my own. I was wondering if it is worth purchasing a processor already made or making my own? If so where can I get good intructions and parts list on making my own or what processor should I look into purchasing? Is there any place I can get a good description, step by step on producing biodiesel and testing it using either a homemade processor or purchased processor? Thanks!!!

01-18-2008, 08:40 AM	#10 (permalink)
febrocks Cummins Nut Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 308 febrocks's Truck Pics	I've have yet not find any answer on biodiesel infopop. Bookmark it. Biodiesel & SVO Forums - Powered by eve community Eugene __________________ 98.5 2500 slt, 24v,quad cab,2wd, longbed, auto. amsoil air filter, II stage 2 injector, VA V5, stock straight pipe, fass hpfp. FP/pryo/trans temp gauge.

01-19-2008, 06:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
DerekSokolowski Cummins Fan Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 35 DerekSokolowski's Truck Pics	Boilermakin' Josh - Soy feed stock is probably going to be your best bet in the winter, that has the lowest freeze point of any. I would stay away from running animal fats in the colder months. During the summer you can run B100 of anything assuming its a good product, if the temps don't go below 40* I would use low FFA animal fats because that would be the cheapest. ak_cowboy - What part of the production process are you talking about regarding temperatures? We "dry wash" our biodiesel with Ion Exchange Resin, it's cheaper then setting up a water wash system, takes less time, and the resin lasts quite a long time before going bad. Hamdog16 - The whole problem your going to encounter is cost. Is it worth it to spend $xx amount on a processor or build your own? Well from my stand point, you would have to do a lot of research before constructing your own processor if you want to produce a quality fuel. If you purchase a processor, it would be much less stressful and already be capable of producing good fuel. It's all up to you really, I would personally build my own processor because I know what is needed and all of the steps. For someone who doesn't doesn't have a good knowledge of biodiesel production, then I would buy one. Also look at Bioking, they have some pretty decent equipment. __________________ Silver 07' Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 5.9L http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/al...biodiesel.html

01-20-2008, 01:48 AM	#12 (permalink)
ak_cowboy Biodiesel Cult Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 444 ak_cowboy's Truck Pics	Derek, I was referring to the mixing phase. I currently heat to around 130 when I mix the methodoxide into the oil. Does it have to be that high or does it matter. It just take a while to heat up to that temp here in Alaska. That is what I was refering to. Thanks __________________ 2006 2500 Mega Limo 5.9 CRD running homebrew Biodiesel Triple Dogged w/ Outlook,2 inch level kit, Silencer ring.....MIA, AFE Torque tube, Amsoil BHAF 4510 1967 Dodge Polara 500 currently getting a face lift. 383ci .030 Edlebrock 750 carb, 484 lift cam @ 272 duration = 14.5 second land yacht!