My Magdrive HHO test Results

[chood45]

Originally Posted by bbraden

The coolest part about hydrogen is that you can make it yourself. Although these generators may not work for on-demand hydrogen production, they DO produce hydrogen! With a small wind turbine generator, an at home gas compressor, you could make your own transportation fuel and compress it into your tank for your own driving needs. Thumb your nose at transportation taxes and the Fed govt's emissions mandates!!

That would also be a hydrogen bomb! Yikes.

I had an interest in this subject earlier this year and never could find anything that didn't seem fony or sound to unrealistic. However, I was at a customer's bus garage today and they have close to six units with test HHO kits on them. They were developed by a local guy. So far they have seen on average with the six school buses a 25% increase in mileage and a boost in power. He had all the documentation on fuel logs in his fleet management system to back it up too. Now that I know it's not completely unrealistic, the question is how to build one. The kits he had were sold to them for around $3k. It would take a few years for me in fuel savings to get my money back. It looked relativley simple. The only thing I saw that I questioned was a small module the guy had installed, that I was told was for monitoring fuel injection rates and pressures, temperatures, and etc. It was supposed to be there for development purposes only to help the guy who designed them figure out how to fine tune it. So far the only problem they had with the six units was burnt one alternator up so they uprated the alternator for more amps, got a tank of water too hot, and ruined an aftercooler before learning they needed to seperate all traces of water in a tube before letting the gas flow into the turbo inlet pipe.

So now that I have rested my mind that this might not be such a scam after all, does anyone know where to look for info or blue prints on how to build one of these for our trucks? All I have seen is the same cheezy ads for cars when I google it. Also what is the optimal amount of gas flow to get the best mpg, and what kind of amps is the system pulling when operating.

Thanks for ya'lls help!

[bbraden]

Hydrogen bomb? Not quite... They have compressed hyrogen tanks on all the hydrogen cars.. what is the difference?

[rwood002]

i have been doing research on the hho systems and what i have read said not to use backing soda just because it dose slime stuff. the best stuff to use is NaOH potasiom hydroxide. 1 part HaOH to 4 parts water by weight.
one was using a coolaide mix

[patracy]

Originally Posted by Tree DR

I'm so glad you posted that link. All you had to do was read past the first section to see all the proof that it does work. I've been looking for all that information for a long time. Of course some people think the world is still flat.

So how's the uber HHO drive system workin for ya? Haven't heard anything else on it.

[Car Hauler]

The 5 laws of sex: = stimulation, timing, lubrication, velocity and volume. Do they teach this in physics, chemistry, biology? I didn't think so...I learned some stuff about sex in 9th grade health class but I digress..

Seems like if you had a dedicated HHO common rail and injectors you could electronically control the "TIMING" as noted in an earlier post. The fact that HHO burns so fast, you wouldn't want it in the diesel combustion chamber very much earlier than TDC..

Somehow you need to "stimulate" enough HHO on demannd to create more than enough "volume" (bigger is better according to the extenze infomercial). And according to the laws of sex, "velocity" of the injection would need to be higher than atmospheric pressure in order to achieve penetration. (A whole new system would need to be invented, HHO high volume generator/compressor and possibly storage). We're talking 6.7 liters per revolution but we only need enough HHO to help the diesel completely burn, eliminiting the need for EGRs and DPFs and a little extra HHO for power but not so much to burn away the lubrication... 6.7 x 2000 rpm = 13400 liters per minute of diesel? air? and HHO? @ 60 mph @ 30K GVW i get 9mpg @ about 2000 rpm this = 2000x60= 120,000 RPH / 6.66 GPH =18,000 RPMs per gallon or 140.635 revs per quart or 4.4 revolutions per fluid ounce, 2.2 revs per 1/2 ounce etc... double everything for 18MPG good luck...

Now if somebody gets this far I commend you but what about "lubrication". A law is a law and with ULSD top cylinder lubrication is minimal at best. As it was pointed out earlier in the thread HHO can affect the lube around the piston rings. But there's always a work around for lubrication (that's what she said)

Everybody knows HHO is a powerful gas but hooking a tube of it coming out of a mason jar into the intake pre tubo is like thinking you're gonna get lucky with the homecoming queen after the chess club tournament.

An edge or smarty alone is not the fix either cause you probably don't want to adjust the timing requirements of diesel fuel to match the timing requirements of HHO bubbling into pre turbo intake. Two completely different fuels, burn rates, BTUs. Two different timing requirements = two seperate injection points. That's right business in the front poker in the rear

Yes think sex cause without sex nobody would be around to discover the laws of thermodynamics, physics, and all that fancy school stuff that gets high volume HHO injectors, compressors, generators invented...

Personally, the best fuel for our trucks is the first fuel that was used by MR. Diesel himself...Hemp Oil. Bio fuel from Hemp should...should cost 25-50 cents per gallon while at the same time producing the raw materials for paper, clothing, insulation, food, fiber board, card board, medicine and creating sustainable jobs for millions of people. But our world is a cruel monopoly run by criminal, slave driver, tyrant, banker types...so good luck with the HHO look what they did to Tesla...

[bbraden]

Originally Posted by Car Hauler

The 5 laws of sex: = stimulation, timing, lubrication, velocity and volume. Do they teach this in physics, chemistry, biology? I didn't think so...I learned some stuff about sex in 9th grade health class but I digress..

Seems like if you had a dedicated HHO common rail and injectors you could electronically control the "TIMING" as noted in an earlier post. The fact that HHO burns so fast, you wouldn't want it in the diesel combustion chamber very much earlier than TDC..

Somehow you need to "stimulate" enough HHO on demannd to create more than enough "volume" (bigger is better according to the extenze infomercial). And according to the laws of sex, "velocity" of the injection would need to be higher than atmospheric pressure in order to achieve penetration. (A whole new system would need to be invented, HHO high volume generator/compressor and possibly storage). We're talking 6.7 liters per revolution but we only need enough HHO to help the diesel completely burn, eliminiting the need for EGRs and DPFs and a little extra HHO for power but not so much to burn away the lubrication... 6.7 x 2000 rpm = 13400 liters per minute of diesel? air? and HHO? @ 60 mph @ 30K GVW i get 9mpg @ about 2000 rpm this = 2000x60= 120,000 RPH / 6.66 GPH =18,000 RPMs per gallon or 140.635 revs per quart or 4.4 revolutions per fluid ounce, 2.2 revs per 1/2 ounce etc... double everything for 18MPG good luck...

Now if somebody gets this far I commend you but what about "lubrication". A law is a law and with ULSD top cylinder lubrication is minimal at best. As it was pointed out earlier in the thread HHO can affect the lube around the piston rings. But there's always a work around for lubrication (that's what she said)

Everybody knows HHO is a powerful gas but hooking a tube of it coming out of a mason jar into the intake pre tubo is like thinking you're gonna get lucky with the homecoming queen after the chess club tournament.

An edge or smarty alone is not the fix either cause you probably don't want to adjust the timing requirements of diesel fuel to match the timing requirements of HHO bubbling into pre turbo intake. Two completely different fuels, burn rates, BTUs. Two different timing requirements = two seperate injection points. That's right business in the front poker in the rear

Yes think sex cause without sex nobody would be around to discover the laws of thermodynamics, physics, and all that fancy school stuff that gets high volume HHO injectors, compressors, generators invented...

Personally, the best fuel for our trucks is the first fuel that was used by MR. Diesel himself...Hemp Oil. Bio fuel from Hemp should...should cost 25-50 cents per gallon while at the same time producing the raw materials for paper, clothing, insulation, food, fiber board, card board, medicine and creating sustainable jobs for millions of people. But our world is a cruel monopoly run by criminal, slave driver, tyrant, banker types...so good luck with the HHO look what they did to Tesla...

Although quite an interesting post... your math is way off. According to YOUR theory it should be 6.7 x 2000 rpm's * 1/2 because we all have four strokes last I checked. I agree with figuring out your fuel flow rate in order to compare it to hydrogen but you just can't compare an ounce of liquid diesel to an ounce of hydrogen gas, especially when the gas will be subjected to boost pressure anytime after the turbocharger. You would have to figure out the amount of compression and relate that to the BTU energy potential in diesel vs. the BTU energy potential in Hydrogen probably per mol and here you go back to 10th grade chemistry. Another thing that people never seem to think about is... if you have this new type of injection system (NOT AN HHO SYSTEM) you will have thermal efficiencies MUCH surpassing the typical diesel injection system and engine. This is mainly due to injecting the hydrogen ATDC and utilizing the full torque of the engine by minimizing backpressure or work in the opposite direction. This means we would require less RPM's, and hence less overall hydrogen flow. Since Hydrogen burns so quickly, it will give less heat to the cylinder walls, meaning you lose less of that 33% of energy going to engine heat. Also since it burns so quickly, you will lose less of that 33% going as heat out the exhaust. Since things like your water pump and injection pump will not require as much power (since they'll be smaller) you no longer need as much power to run accessories... meaning less fuel consumption.

[Desert Dually]

Originally Posted by patracy

So how's the uber HHO drive system workin for ya? Haven't heard anything else on it.

I'm sorry, but that made me laugh

[chood45]

If anyone could tell me how you can inject hyrdogen from ur intake at TDC by routing it into the charge air, I would love to know. Sure we can control fuel timing with electronically controlled injectors, but we can't control valve timing. That is of course done by the camshaft. I still can't grasp how the hydrogen gas can enter the cylinder via the intake valve on the intake stroke, and not precombust when the piston comes up on it's compression stroke??? Looks to me it would ignite long before TDC due to it's flammabilty, thus working against itself. Anyone know how that doesn't happen?

Also, I might add, alot of the hydrogen stuff especially on the Internet is a scam. If it was so great everyone would be doing it. However, I believe if a person had a lot of time on their hands they might be able to play with it just enough to make it an efficient add-on to our diesels. You can only create so much with the alternator before it becomes too great of a load on the engine working against the energy saving benefit you was first working for. I think that with the right amount a person could capture all the BTUs in the diesel allowing more power and better fuel economy. I also think that each truck would be different especially with all the varieties of programmers on the market. Fuel injection amount and timing would play a big role in fine tuning the hydrogen output. This is of course all my two cents, but I have worked on diesels for a living for several years now, and know the basics like the back of my hand. For now I am sticking with good ole #2 until someone like I mentioned with all the time on their hands can figure it out for me. However, this is still an interesting topic.

[bbraden]

You can't inject hydrogen at a specific point with the HHO systems. It enters the airstream after the turbocharger and goes into the engine just like the normal air does. To do it right you would have to inject it just like a common rail system... at a determined point in the engine's cycle.

As for the compression, Hydrogen actually has a much lower compression ignition point than any other fuel. Thus it doesn't ignite until the diesel ignition begins the hydrogen ignition.

[chood45]

Originally Posted by bbraden

You can't inject hydrogen at a specific point with the HHO systems. It enters the airstream after the turbocharger and goes into the engine just like the normal air does. To do it right you would have to inject it just like a common rail system... at a determined point in the engine's cycle.

As for the compression, Hydrogen actually has a much lower compression ignition point than any other fuel. Thus it doesn't ignite until the diesel ignition begins the hydrogen ignition.

That's what I am thinking too. I just dont know how it could be injected at the correct time. It would almost have to have a cylinder head with a seperate injector port, and a timing system to control it; very complicated needless to say. However, I did not know that it took more to ignite hydrogen. From everything I have seen it doesnt take much to ignite it. Diesel fuel doesn't seem to be near as volatile. I'll have to look into that.

[bbraden]

Originally Posted by chood45

That's what I am thinking too. I just dont know how it could be injected at the correct time. It would almost have to have a cylinder head with a seperate injector port, and a timing system to control it; very complicated needless to say. However, I did not know that it took more to ignite hydrogen. From everything I have seen it doesnt take much to ignite it. Diesel fuel doesn't seem to be near as volatile. I'll have to look into that.

Yes, it would have to have its own injector inside the cylinder. That's the only way it would work and keep the hydrogen off of the cylinder walls.

As for the detonation: the detonation limits are about 13 times higher for Hydrogen than gasoline. I don't have any comparison numbers for diesel vs hydrogen. The self ignition temp is 585 deg. Celcius compared to 228-501 deg Celc. for gasoline. In other words, it really needs a spark or the diesel to ignite it in the cylinder.

I was talking about flame speeds earlier... Hydrogen has a flame speed of 30,200'/sec vs. roughly 4,000'/sec for gasoline.

[bbraden]

I found the numbers for diesel also... Autoignition Temp:

Gasoline: 495 deg F
Diesel: 600 deg F
Hydrogen: 1050-1080 deg F