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Old 10-07-2007, 10:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I've got to chime in on this one. I had been running Rotella 15w-40 in my truck for 2 oilchanges with the BMK-11 bypass and my oil analysis was always within the "safe" limits at 6k-7k oil analysis,BUT, don't hate me here Chuck, I found a deal on the Dodge recommended oil which is a CI-4+ oil, and all I have to say is that the engine is much less "clattery"(I know that that's not a good desc.) but runs much smoother with CI-4+. My point being, In my experience, my engine runs much smoother with CI-4+.
I will, however, run the Amsoil CI-4+ oil on my next change.
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:51 AM   #26 (permalink)
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WoodRep, you are all good man. Running a CI-4+ oil in a 5.9 truck is exactly what you SHOULD be doing! You're definately on the right track. Only people with 6.7 Cummins trucks have to run the newer and compromised CJ-4 oils. I run a CI-4+ oil in my 2002 Cummins.

-Chuck
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Old 10-08-2007, 10:44 AM   #27 (permalink)
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i use 5w-40 in my 2006 powerstroke...want the better flo 4 the winter and same protection 4 the summer...!!!
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:10 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Cold weather performance is an important factor to consider when choosing an oil. The lower the Pour Point of an oil, the better that oil will perform during cold starts. What this means to your engine is that the better cold weather performing oil will pump better and bring oil pressure up much quicker in the cold. The lower the cold point, the better. An oil with a -10 degree pour point will still get quite thick even at 20 above zero Farenheit. Keep that in mind. Put some Rotella and a synthetic in your freezer and see for yourself. Synthetic oils beat conventional oil for pour point because good synthetics do not have paraffins (petroleum wax).

Shell Rotella T Multigrade 15W40 with Advanced Soot Control has a Cold Pour Point of -15 degrees Farenheit.

AMSOIL AME 15W40 has a Cold Pour Point of -44 degrees Farenheit.

AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) has a Cold Pour Point of -58 degrees Farenheit.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
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W Only people with 6.7 Cummins trucks have to run the newer and compromised CJ-4 oils.
-Chuck

While some feel the newer CJ-4 oil is compromised, the UOAs (even those with 25k+ on them) are showing the CJ-4 oils to BE as good as CI-4. I know of only a few people running more that 20k on an oil change, and most don't exceed 10k.

My last UOA with just over 8k showed 11 ppm of iron...that's about as low as it gets for wear.

Do not let the personal, non-factual, opinions of the CJ-4 oils get in the way of hard facts (in this case, Used Oil Analyses)...with every UOA, the CJ-4 stuff is looking like it will prove BETTER than CI-4 ultimately.

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Old 10-08-2007, 01:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Remember that you are adding 1.5 gallons of new CJ-4 oil to your system every time you are changing your bypass filter. That definately has an effect on the perceived lifespan of your oil. Continually adding large quantities of new oil will make the UOA and service interval much longer and appear much better than if you kept the same original load of oil for the entire service interval. The fact, and I've shown, is that CJ-4 oils don't have tht TBN number that CI-4+ oils have. And there is no bias, since I sell both CI-4 and CJ-4 oils. Early on when CJ-4 oils first came to market, many oil manufacturers (including AMSOIL) plainly stated that CI-4 oils were preferrable for extended drain intervals. Only as time passed, and oil companies realized that they would have to stop producing CI-4 oils as a pure matter of economics, did all that honest language about CI-4 and CJ-4 oils disappear. Now the tune they're all singing is that CJ-4 oils are backward compatible. They aren't saying this to benefit you or your truck, they are saying this to keep you buying their CJ-4 oils.

I maintain that the arguement about CJ-4 oils are not "personal, non-factual opinons" but have been shown to be true. CJ-4 oils are a compromise to meet emissions. And as I stated in an earlier post, the current oil chemisty and engineering technology is making this true. This means that it may, and probably will change. We will likely see CJ-4 oils that perform equally well or better than CI-4+ oils in non-DPF applications, but not right now. So, until I cannot get CI-4+ oils, or until I am shown proof that CJ-4 oils are up to par with CI-4+ oils, I will keep running CI-4+ oils. And steved, as much as I value your input, I can't convince myself that CJ-4 oils are as good or superior based on your experience. Since you are adding 1.5 gallons of fresh oil with each bypass filter change, that makes the UOA results rather skewed in favor of CJ-4 oils. And again, I am not biased one way or the other for business of financial reasons as I sell both types of oil. I'm just trying to convey what I know from the information I have gathered.

-Chuck
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:08 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Remember that you are adding 1.5 gallons of new CJ-4 oil to your system every time you are changing your bypass filter.

They aren't saying this to benefit you or your truck, they are saying this to keep you buying their CJ-4 oils.

I maintain that the arguement about CJ-4 oils are not "personal, non-factual opinons" but have been shown to be true. CJ-4 oils are a compromise to meet emissions. And as I stated in an earlier post, the current oil chemisty and engineering technology is making this true.

Since you are adding 1.5 gallons of fresh oil with each bypass filter change, that makes the UOA results rather skewed in favor of CJ-4 oils.

-Chuck


And as I've repeatedly told you, those UOAs of mine were not of oil that had "make up" oil added...they were STRAIGHT RUNS of CJ-4. :THREAT:

And the UOA recently run by a TDR memeber had 26k miles on it...other than it thickened because he doesn't run a bypass, it looked really good.

My point is, don't drag the CJ-4 oils through the mud because NONE OF US know what they are capable of...IMHO, the oil manufacturers are using additives that our conventional UOAs will not "see" and this was confirmed in a discussion on TDR. I base my opinions off UOAs of the oil in actual use, not the opinions of someone looking at a VOA or basing their opinions on hearsay.

Show me a trend of CJ-4 UOAs that show, in our application, where CJ-4 isn't performing as well as CI-4+...you most likely can't, because there are very few CJ-4 UOAs to compare...my UOAs being 2 of probably less than 20 I have seen in my net searches. And not a single CJ-4 UOA has looked bad, let alone worse than CI-4.

And again, basing an opinion on current oil chemistry analysis is most likely not accurate since they are using modern additives that we can't see in that UOA, other than in low wear metals.

And again, my UOAs are both straight runs of CJ-4...no make up oil added...the next one will have 1.5 gallons added to the 4.5 gallons sump, but it will also have nearly 20k on the "old oil" and 10k on the "make up oil".

My main point is two fold...first CJ-4 isn't anywhere as bad as some people want to have you believe and second, since CI-4 is being phased out, its sorta a moot point if you can't get CI-4 because production stopped...

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Old 10-08-2007, 02:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Chuck,

You hit the nail on the head when you say that oil is still thick at 20 degrees even if it has a pour point of Ė10 below zero. IIRC an oils flow point is some around 30 degrees higher then the oils pour point and many people donít know nor have they even heard about an oils flow point, so Iím glad to see you bring this subject up. Also many people donít realize that most conventional 15w40 oils donít flow well at zero degrees and most of us know that lack of oil at start up is very hard on our engines. I think oil flow is why Dodge and Cummins recommend we use winter weight oil when the outside temps get down to or below zero degrees in-between oil changes.

JMHO
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:20 PM   #33 (permalink)
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And as I've repeatedly told you, those UOAs of mine were not of oil that had "make up" oil added...they were STRAIGHT RUNS of CJ-4. :THREAT:

And the UOA recently run by a TDR memeber had 26k miles on it...other than it thickened because he doesn't run a bypass, it looked really good.

My point is, don't drag the CJ-4 oils through the mud because NONE OF US know what they are capable of...IMHO, the oil manufacturers are using additives that our conventional UOAs will not "see" and this was confirmed in a discussion on TDR. I base my opinions off UOAs of the oil in actual use, not the opinions of someone looking at a VOA or basing their opinions on hearsay.

Show me a trend of CJ-4 UOAs that show, in our application, where CJ-4 isn't performing as well as CI-4+...you most likely can't, because there are very few CJ-4 UOAs to compare...my UOAs being 2 of probably less than 20 I have seen in my net searches. And not a single CJ-4 UOA has looked bad, let alone worse than CI-4.

And again, basing an opinion on current oil chemistry analysis is most likely not accurate since they are using modern additives that we can't see in that UOA, other than in low wear metals.

And again, my UOAs are both straight runs of CJ-4...no make up oil added...the next one will have 1.5 gallons added to the 4.5 gallons sump, but it will also have nearly 20k on the "old oil" and 10k on the "make up oil".

My main point is two fold...first CJ-4 isn't anywhere as bad as some people want to have you believe and second, since CI-4 is being phased out, its sorta a moot point if you can't get CI-4 because production stopped...

steved
As I said in my previous post: "We will likely see CJ-4 oils that perform equally well or better than CI-4+ oils in non-DPF applications, but not right now. So, until I cannot get CI-4+ oils, or until I am shown proof that CJ-4 oils are up to par with CI-4+ oils, I will keep running CI-4+ oils."

So, from what I've read and been told (realize that I'm not just an AMSOIL dealer, but also sell Shell, Mobil, Chevron, and other brands) CJ-4 oils are still being perfected. Talk from many oil companies, including AMSOIL, was that CI-4+ oils were still preferrable for non DPF equipped trucks. The data that steved is fronting and accumulating is very promising, but I'm still a skeptic. And if the oil guy is skeptical, perhaps this info is all worth digesting a little. But steve is right, the point will at some point become moot because CI-4+ availability will continue to decrease. At this point, AMSOIL intends to keep producing CI-4+ oils. I am also betting that AMSOIL will continue to produce CI-4+ oils until their CJ-4 oil meets their high standards and the older CI-4+ product is eclipsed by the performance of their CJ-4 oils. But that hasn't happened yet, and I'm pretty close to some knowledgable people within AMSOIL. Steved, I don't want to get into a lawn-watering match with you, I surely don't. But I'll keep sharing what I know and believe to be factual and relevant to our membership here, and you do the same. The combined information from us all just gives others more info to chew on to make their own opinons.



-Chuck
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:24 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Chuck,

You hit the nail on the head when you say that oil is still thick at 20 degrees even if it has a pour point of Ė10 below zero. IIRC an oils flow point is some around 30 degrees higher then the oils pour point and many people donít know nor have they even heard about an oils flow point, so Iím glad to see you bring this subject up. Also many people donít realize that most conventional 15w40 oils donít flow well at zero degrees and most of us know that lack of oil at start up is very hard on our engines. I think oil flow is why Dodge and Cummins recommend we use winter weight oil when the outside temps get down to or below zero degrees in-between oil changes.

JMHO

Thanks DBLR! Pour Point specs are often misunderstood, and you are exactly right that oils thicken up well before they get down to their official cold pour point. I run AMSOIL AME 15W40 all year round, and I live in the NW tip of Wisconsin. The oil performs very well for me, even in the WI winters.

-Chuck
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:30 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Just changed to AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) has a Cold Pour Point of -58 degrees Farenheit. Thanks Chuck! Went with it for the pour point, work 12hr shifts with no plug in for heater, we seen -15* lasts winter. My question is, how will this protect my truck in summer when we can see 100*+, right now it's still 90* in Indiana, WTH? IMO, I've got to go with what Chuck is telling us, even though results may not show a differance now, the oil changed and that is documented Fact.
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:34 PM   #36 (permalink)
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You'll be fine in the summer with that oil, Redneck Ram. Synthetics not only perform better at cold temps, but they are also more thermally stable at high temps.
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