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Synthetic or Dino?

5K views 26 replies 15 participants last post by  dr.porsche 
#1 ·
Hey guys, I was looking at facebook today and someone posted on one of the Cummins groups that I'm a part of that they were doing a sale at NAPA on Valvolene Premium Extreme Blue - 5W40 - 1 Gal at $19 a piece. That got me thinking. On these old 12 valves, is there a benefit to running synthetic over dino oil? I have always run full synthetic in all my other vehicles, but have never considered it for the truck.
 
#3 ·
I run dino. Thought about switching to synthetic to increase oil change intervals but I don't think it's worth it for the miles I put on the truck, plus I was afraid it would cause more leaks by switching. I have enough trouble fixing the leaks I already have. Pretty sure it's never had synthetic in it.
 
#5 ·
One of the biggest benefits to synthetic oil is that it stays on the lubricated surfaces far longer than dino oil. The part of an engine's life that is the hardest is cold starts because there is no oil to lubricate stuff until it starts pumping through the system. This is where synthetics shine, they keep those surfaces lubricated for cold starts. I change all of my fluids to synthetics, with a few exceptions. Some things, like the clutch on my Harley, require old fashioned lubricants for various reasons.

If somebody is telling you that there is no benefit to changing your engine oil to synthetic, they do not know what they are talking about; it is a benefit every time. If they have data that shows otherwise, they misinterpreted the data. Period.

Edit- Also, I use Red Line. I'm not going into a sales pitch to explain why, but my research indicates that nobody does it better. You should check out the different grades of synthetic fluids; it will open your eyes. I had no idea until I started researching it several years ago that there was such a huge difference between different synthetics.
 
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#12 ·
One of the biggest benefits to synthetic oil is that it stays on the lubricated surfaces far longer than dino oil. The part of an engine's life that is the hardest is cold starts because there is no oil to lubricate stuff until it starts pumping through the system. This is where synthetics shine, they keep those surfaces lubricated for cold starts.
For this reason I use Lucas additive in my dino. Also use Lucas for an assembly lube, works very well.:thumbsup:
 
#10 ·
If an engine can go at least 800k miles on dino what advantage will synthetic add when considering per mile the extra cost of synthetic compared to an engine rebuild?
 
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#11 ·
I run synthetic for the better properties, but also because it lends itself to extended drain intervals based on oil analysis. Every 5500 miles or so, I draw a sample and send it off to the lab. If the analysis report they email me looks ok, I replace the filter, top off the oil lost due to the filter change, and continue to the next sample interval. One qt of oil, one filter, and $20 for the test (I buy a package of 10 for better pricing) beats the hell of a full oil change.
 
#13 ·
Haven't had my personal 12V very long but have driven 4BT powered forklifts for 20 years now. My company has a fleet of equipment that has only had Dino oil since hour zero, and some machines now have over 7,000 hours on them, much of it at full throttle. We change oil religiously every 250 hours and use Fleetguard filters although I use Baldwin on my truck. None of the machines have ever had internal engine problems and just one or two turbos have needed replacing.

Our company trucks (Chevy 1500s) were on Dino oil also at the time and when they switched to Amsoil I know of three that had camshaft issues. Now all the trucks are new and are serviced by the dealership.


For my old truck, it's dino oil and whatever is the best price. Valvolene, Chevron, Rotella, Castrol, ect it doesnt matter as long as it's clean and changed on schedule.
 
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#14 · (Edited)
Synthetic poses no real advantage to the average user. There is absolutely no "need/advantage" to synthetic for daily driving etc.. If I towed/hauled heavy or in extreme heat, it might be a different story.

I run regular Dino Delvac 15W-40 and change my oil once a year at anywhere between 11K miles and 13K miles. I do change the filter every 4 months and fill it with a fresh quart of oil. I have had the oil tested, and it had absolutely NO problem at that interval (12 months/13K miles) and could have went even longer. I personally, just dont like oil in a vehicle for over a year. I buy the Delvac at the local Rural King when its on sale and Mobil has their $5/gal rebates.... so it ends up costing me approx $7/gal + tax. With a Baldwin filter, thats $27 for an oil change.... you cant beat that! Here is a link to the thread I made, with the oil report: Delvac 15W-40 Oil Analysis

The truth is, Dino oil is, and has been.... plenty of protection for daily drivers (even diesels) for a LONG time. The proof is in the pudding. There are big rig owners all over the world with hundreds of thousands.... even millions of miles, on Dino oil. Not to mention those miles are harder miles than what we put on as daily drivers.

Unless you are wanting to run 20K mile to 30K mile oil change intervals, it doesnt pay for the average user to run synthetic... especially with 3K miles to 10K mile OCI's. Its wasted money. A lot of people will say a lot of silly things to justify the money the spend. That doesnt make it fact. The fact is that Dino will last well beyond the manuf recommended OCI. I have even seen Blackstone reports on Dino that was still good at 20K miles.

The ONLY advantage that synthetic has (for our trucks) is that it is available in a 5W-40, which makes it appealing in temperatures below zero, without having to plug in etc... with 15W-40.

Do your own home work, as eventually, its your money spent. If you want to run synthetic, more power to you, as it wont hurt a thing. Just dont buy into the hype that its so much better than Dino, especially for the every day driver who changes their oil every 3K miles to 10K miles.
 
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#17 ·
:hehe:


You are wrong. See my previous comment as to why synthetic is superior to dino oil. There is simply no getting around the facts, as much as you would like to try.
 
#18 ·
If Delo 400 synthetic oil is good enough for 18 wheelers that run across America every day in some of the hottest and coldest weather then it's good enough for my truck ...
 
#20 ·
Just disagree and let it go. I run 15-40 Dino in my 7.3 furd. I run 5-40 synthetic in my cummins. Really for no other reason than "I want to" and it sits outside every once in awhile below zero for a few days where it can't be plugged in.

I also run 2 qts of lucas in both. That's great stuff!
 
#21 ·
Touchy subject I see.......LOL
 
#22 ·
Wow.....there is so much misinformation being spread thats it no wonder people tend to be so confused about the differences between synthetics and conventional lubricants. :doh:

For anyone interested in this topic, I highly suggest doing as much research as possible before deciding or coming to any conclusions. And.....places like https://bobistheoilguy.com/ is a great website to begin your journey with forums dedicated to such specific topics.

That said, let me just say that there are many applications best suited for conventional lubricants, and there are many applications best suited for synthetics. You also may unknowingly be using one or the other since OEM lubricants typically dont state either way unless you know what to look for in the specs.

If I may though, please let me throw in some fun facts you may or may not already know which tend to be the most common reasons why people use synthetics, and some of the fallacies some readily spew claiming their knowledge about lubricants.

Keeping this simple: Lubricants biggest threats are thermal breakdown from oxidation and polymer shearing.

Oxidation is when the oil temperature gets hot enough that the smaller oil molecules contacting oxygen leave the base with those oxygen molecules in a state of evaporation. Oxidation happens to all petroleum based oils too at approximately 140*F, and the rate of oxidation doubles every 10* the lubricants temperature increases. Oxidation results in all the larger oil molecules remaining and the oil getting thicker and thicker. The problem is that you cant get away from oxidation because oil needs to run hot enough in order to burn off water molecules which has found its way into the lubricant from condensation. You just dont want oil to get too hot because thats when oxidation destroys lubrication values and increases oil viscosity, leaving behind sludge and varnish.

Viscosity is controlled by adding polymers to the lubricant which act like springy coils suspended within the lubricant. When the lubricant is cold the coils are wound up allowing easier flow, and when the oil heats up the coils unwind preventing the oil from thinning. Shearing is when those viscosity polymers are damaged by the pressures and friction the lubricant goes through, over time offering less and less in maintaining the correct viscosity based on temperature.

We change oil generally because oil collects contaminants over time which remains suspended, unless caught in the filter, and also because oxidation and shearing changes the oils molecular structure. The more abuse the oil goes through, obviously the more often the lubricant needs to be changed.

Now its very important to understand that synthetics are NOT a man made lubricant product but rather a premium draw from the crude oil fracking process which results in the most symmetrical fluid contained on a molecular level. Then lubricant manufactures add their own proprietary additives which give them their "marketed advantages" over that of the others. Also, most synthetics available to the everyday consumers are just a petroleum based product.....very similar to the bottle of conventional sitting next to it. The misnomer that synthetic lubricants are some highly secretive NASA like space goop create in a laboratory full of white coat scientists is just plain false.....

But because synthetics are made up of the most symmetrical molecules drawn during that fracking process, that symmetry works at fighting oxidation by lessening the chances of the lubricant molecules leaving as the oxygen molecules have a harder time pulling them away. And when some of the lubricant molecules do oxidize, the remaining molecules are still of similar size. This maintains viscosity and allows the polymers to remain more protected while the lubricants are running at hotter temperatures, thus perform their tasks longer as the oil remains in a more constant state of viscous condition for more miles. Also.....because of all that, the polymers used in synthetics can offer better low temperature flow characteristics while colder than most conventional lubricants.

Point is that conventional and synthetic lubricants offer the EXACT same protection unless they're used in applications which would be subject to extreme cold climates or subject to extreme heat situations. Disclaimer: The extreme heat can also be within the engine as well and not just ambient. Meaning, some high HP engines need the advantages of synthetic at the point of contact and some gear lubricants need synthetics during the extreme hypoid action as thats where the heat is most intense. Lastly.....synthetics dont "cling" to anything better than conventional lubricants either. There are some synthetics which charge the lubricants molecules in order to help them stick to the metal surfaces magnetically, but this is not common marketing.

So with ALL that said, again, I high advise someone interested in this subject to gain their means of information based on many varying sources, because trying to gain your information from people who obviously have some strange religiously passionate view on lubricants proves worthless to all. And trying to learn informational things from the companies who manufacture the lubricants tends to be pointless as they will always use the mind warping tool called "marketing" to claim why their product is best.....which we all tend to strangely fall for and walk away being their guinea pigs. :thumbsup:
 
#24 ·
I suppose I should add that I live in Montana and it frequently gets sub zero here. We had a winter a couple of years ago where it was around -20 for 2 weeks with one day being -47. Synthetic would probably do me well in these conditions. (I still will have to plug in, but this will help for those times I am not able) Even with all the debate going on in this thread, I want to thank everyone for the information you provided and hope that maybe other people can use this thread as reference as well.
 
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