My WVO experience......

[AZBLACKSMOKE]

Originally Posted by illflem

Main problem folks run into running WVO is that there is no way to filter out dissolved sugar, salt, MSG, etc in the oil. Eventually this cokes up your injectors, valves and piston top.
This is the reason many people who have touted WVO have switched to BD, the dissolved impurities are removed.
Give it 25k for problems to start showing up.
There was a guy at DTR raving about how he had been running heated WVO for 20k. He PMed me about month ago with engine rebuild questions, haven't seen him post about WVO since then.

Good info Bill.

This is being done while I am continueing to build my BIO processor. I too have thought about what you posted. I simply have a lot WVO at my disposal....I am merely experementing with as much as I can.

__________________
2001 Chevy Xcab,4x4,LB7/Allison, Straight4in, predator.
Previously a 12valver...

[AZBLACKSMOKE]

Originally Posted by DieselBurps

Search www.mcmaster.com for filter bags. There's also www.filterbag.com.


Just to clarify - fuel pressure gauge was the topic - I didn't want other readers to get confused here.


I've got a 4 mile commute - but I do make the occasional longer trip. My newly designed (and soon to be implemented) setup should allow me to switch to WVO in about a mile. Purge time shouldn't be that bad - when I switch back to diesel, the WVO should be purged down to a reasonable % mix within a 1/2 mile, and completely gone by 1 mile. That helps to cut my fuel consumption in 1/2. Blend by 50% also and it's down to 1/4! Also - if I head home for lunch and don't take too long at home, I can do ~ 6.5 miles of the 8 mile trip on WVO.

The final satisfaction comes in when I can finish up my biodiesel refinery and then do 100% of the trip off diesel!

Thanks for the link on the bags.

Whats the chances of getting some pictures of your setup?

What kind of Bio processor are you building?

I hope to have my water heater for my bio processor soon. Then I will start plumbing it, etc.

Keep us posted with your progress. This is good info for this thread...I think people will find it useful someday. Plus, its good to have someone to compare notes with.

__________________
2001 Chevy Xcab,4x4,LB7/Allison, Straight4in, predator.
Previously a 12valver...

[DieselBurps]

Originally Posted by illflem

Main problem folks run into running WVO is that there is no way to filter out dissolved sugar, salt, MSG, etc in the oil. Eventually this cokes up your injectors, valves and piston top.
This is the reason many people who have touted WVO have switched to BD, the dissolved impurities are removed.

How? Magic? That same WVO that can be burned by itself is made into Biod by reacting it with Methanol. The cleaning process is pretty much the same in both cases. If the folks that ran into problems didn't process their WVO properly - or heat it sufficiently, I'm sure they ran into all kinds of problems.

Originally Posted by illflem

Give it 25k for problems to start showing up.

Run cold grease through a cold direct injection engine and it won't take 25k miles!

Originally Posted by illflem

There was a guy at DTR raving about how he had been running heated WVO for 20k. He PMed me about month ago with engine rebuild questions, haven't seen him post about WVO since then.

His name wasn't Ken, was it? I know of a Ken in Montana who had a catastrophic engine failure while towing a heavy load up a hill. Not sure what the post mortem was, but he did have a rebuild going on. Suspicions were that he holed a piston.

Sugar and salt don't suspend well in WVO. Try mixing them sometime. They will suspend well in any water that is dissolved in the WVO though. You may not notice it with BioD as much because the extra water would affect the reaction and generate a ton of glycerin "glop". No matter what you are using the WVO for, it's important to filter it as well as dry it out. Trace amounts of water can damage your injection pump over time - even without any dissolved sugar or salt.

I filter my newly acquired WVO through a 10 micron filter to get the big chunks out. From there it settles and gets pumped into a washing barrel - where I mist water over the top, allowing it to settle through the oil and pick up any contaminants. The water flows out to the bottom, where an open valve allows it to flow out of a hose. I control the level of the barrel by putting the top of the hose at a point where only water can drain out. Mist washing is usually done by most BioD makers. It does wonders to help get impurities out.

After settling the washed WVO, I pull the clean top 2/3's out of the barrel (leaving the bottom 1/3 of water and a "safety margin" of WVO) and run it through a 0.5 micron filter. It settles out again - in the winter I apply heat and let it settle, in the summer it's just stored outside in dark barrels for a few weeks. From there it goes into a sealable container that I pull a vacuum on to boil the water out. After ~ 20 minutes, the foam stops forming and the WVO is about as dry and clean as you can get it. It is ready at that point for BioD processing OR to put in the 2cd tank in either truck.

The best way to coke up the engine is by running cold WVO. It does NOT flow like diesel when cold, and it is flung out of the injectors in large globs. They stick to the pistons, sides of the engine, etc and cause hot spots when they ignite. They do not burn as well, and the resulting carbon deposits are a bad thing. There are research papers available that discuss the damaging effects. Maybe those people were not heating up the WVO adequately? There are a number of commercial WVO kit manufacturers that tend to believe in voodoo rather than science, they only partially heat the WVO and go with it. It works well enough for the person to drive away in the car - far enough for the check to clear!

Around 160 *F, WVO starts to flow like cold diesel. There are plenty of people that have a lot more than 25k miles on WVO. I'll venture a guess that they prepared the WVO properly AND heated it sufficiently to make it work. The people you were referring to took a short cut somewhere along the line and dealt with the consequences.

[DieselBurps]

Originally Posted by AZBLACKSMOKE

Thanks for the link on the bags.

No problem.

Originally Posted by AZBLACKSMOKE

Whats the chances of getting some pictures of your setup?

The new install going into the '96, or the old and rough one that works in the '93? Very good on the '96 - there isn't too much to show yet, I'm still installing it. I've got a few more parts that I'm waiting on - mostly the braided steel fuel lines and some custom configured Hydraforce valves - both should be here this week. I've installed some of the hardware already - but I got rained out today. With any luck, I'll have it wrapped up next weekend. I'm taking pictures along the way for the comprehensive photo-diary... I'll work on getting them some of them posted this week...

My goal is to use this install to generate a parts list and tear apart my wife's truck setup - upgrading it to be like my new one. My design has been refined substantially since I set hers up. It's by far the cleanest and easiest setup I've seen. The '93 is a mess of hoses under the hood - I'm not proud of it, but it does work!

Originally Posted by AZBLACKSMOKE

What kind of Bio processor are you building?

The basic design is the Appleseed processor. I've got part of it plumbed already - I need to finish my truck conversion so I can complete the BioD setup as well.

[AZBLACKSMOKE]

Still going good. I have increase my WVO to about 60%. Our 80ish degree weather seems to be working in my favor.

I pulled 3 injectors to see if there is any carbon buildup or anything and everything looks good. Probably not a good indicator...but I was bored.

Engine really seems so respond good and my wallet is even responding better.

I have revised my filtering process as well. I now run the WVO through 2 screens, then a 20 micron then a 10 micron and last of all a 5 micron. I am now using household type water filters that are much cheaper.

I will post pics of my setup soon. I am also planning a additional 2 micron water seperator for the truck as well. Also a fuel gauge just in case.

Stay tuned.

__________________
2001 Chevy Xcab,4x4,LB7/Allison, Straight4in, predator.
Previously a 12valver...

[DieselBurps]

Here's something interesting to read...
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=2

Before you go too wild on blending... Your results may differ, but at least be aware that others have blended and not had great results. Keep close tabs on it!!! These guys were using unheated WVO - most of us burning WVO heat it to ~ 160 *F. I'm not sure if blended WVO+Diesel would respond better to warmer temps - but it might be something worth looking into.

[AZBLACKSMOKE]

Originally Posted by DieselBurps

Here's something interesting to read...
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=2

Before you go too wild on blending... Your results may differ, but at least be aware that others have blended and not had great results. Keep close tabs on it!!! These guys were using unheated WVO - most of us burning WVO heat it to ~ 160 *F. I'm not sure if blended WVO+Diesel would respond better to warmer temps - but it might be something worth looking into.

Thanks for the link Burps....I will definatly be cautious.

I got my 80 gallon water heater yesterday and I am putting my BIO processor together, so i wont be blending very much longer.

Meanwhile....anyone in AZ know where the crap I can buy lye? I can not find it anywhere. Or even over the internet if i have to....help.

__________________
2001 Chevy Xcab,4x4,LB7/Allison, Straight4in, predator.
Previously a 12valver...

[illflem]

It's harder to get now because it's used in making methamphetamine.
Red Devil drain cleaner used to be the lye of choice
Buy Potassium Hydroxide from http://www.chemistrystore.com/potassium_hydroxide.htm
or any place that sells hide tanning supplies such as http://www.braintan.com/Merchant2/me...Code=Materials

Lye is easy to make from wood ashes, but I've forgot how, I'm sure you can find out with a net search.
That's one problem with making BD, nosy neighbors may turn you in for cooking up drugs.

__________________
Bill
'95 2500 4wd auto
'95 3500 5 speed heavy hauler
Both far from stock

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Last edited by illflem : 02-23-2006 at 06:00 PM.

[AZBLACKSMOKE]

Originally Posted by illflem

It harder to get now because it's used in making methamphetamine.
Red Devil drain cleaner used to be the lye of choice
Buy Potassium Hydroxide from http://www.chemistrystore.com/potassium_hydroxide.htm
or any place that sells hide tanning supplies such as http://www.braintan.com/Merchant2/me...Code=Materials

Lye is easy to make from wood ashes, but I've forgot how, I'm sure you can find out with a net search

I knew there had to be a catch. I use to always see lye in the olden days. Friggin meth heads.

I have read very little about the potassium hydroxide route, but have a general idea. It takes more, but it goes farther or something like that. Thanks for the links. I will check into it, expecially if its easier to get.

Are you familiar with it? Do you know of a recipe?

__________________
2001 Chevy Xcab,4x4,LB7/Allison, Straight4in, predator.
Previously a 12valver...

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Last edited by AZBLACKSMOKE : 02-23-2006 at 06:45 PM.

[illflem]

Common household lye like Red Devil is sodium hydroxide. When you use Potassium Hydroxide you need to use 1.4 times more.
more info http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye

Chem Store also sells Potassium Hydroxide http://www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium_Hydroxide.htm

__________________
Bill
'95 2500 4wd auto
'95 3500 5 speed heavy hauler
Both far from stock

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Last edited by illflem : 02-23-2006 at 08:39 PM.