2-cycle Oils - Recommended List

[Racer9]

Originally Posted by Mopar1973Man

FOR ALL POWER SERVICE USERS!

You olny need 9.6 Ozs of power service per tank of fuel PERIOD!

Using more than 9.6 Ozs of power service is over kill and causing the lubicity of the fuel to be come thinner. So Don't add more PS than you really need to. The 96Oz bottle of PS is enough to make for 300 Gallons... Or a mix ratio of 400:1.

So if you mixing with 2 cycle oil you need 32 ozs of 2 cycle oil to 32 gallons. Or 1oz of oil to 1 gallon of fuel. Then the 9.6 Ozs of PS. Abusing additive is going to cause excessive IP pump wear!

Knowing that VP44 pumps are $1,600 bucks I'm not going to use more than directed!

Well, first of all, I have the P7100.
My mix is 8oz 2-stroke oil, to 24oz PS, and I add 16oz of the mix at fill-up, which would be about 4oz 2-stroke/12oz PS, which apparently is a bit too much PS, not enough 2-stroke.
So what you're saying is I could mix it 50/50, which would be about 8oz of each.
I really don't think I need a qt of 2-stroke in the tank.

__________________

'96 CTD, 4X4 flatbed, Isspro gauges, Skyjacker D-25's, ThurenFab track bar, lockRite.

Motor; BHAF, #100 fuel plate, Shimmed gov springs, Loose starwheel.

Exhaust; 16cm housing, 4" downpipe, 5" turnout stacks.

Trans; Dunrite VB/TC, Intelligent Engineering billet input shaft, Burt Brown rebuild/upgrade.

[Mopar1973Man]

Originally Posted by Racer9

Well, first of all, I have the P7100.
My mix is 8oz 2-stroke oil, to 24oz PS, and I add 16oz of the mix at fill-up, which would be about 4oz 2-stroke/12oz PS, which apparently is a bit too much PS, not enough 2-stroke.
So what you're saying is I could mix it 50/50, which would be about 8oz of each.
I really don't think I need a qt of 2-stroke in the tank.

Too much Power Service... PowerService is mostly solvents not lube. Put a small amount of PowerService in a dish and check it in a week you'll have a sticky gummy mess. OILS do not evaporate!

Add 9-10 Ozs of Power Service and 16-32 Ozs of 2 cycle oil...

Remember that ULSD is only 0.0015% lube by volume... And the old HSD (High Sulfur Diesel) was 0.5% to 2% lube by volume. So you need more lube and less (WAY LESS) Power Service (9-10 Ozs MAXIMUM!)

Remember when your figuring mixing it 4,480 Ozs = 35 Gallons of fuel...

So 8 Ozs of 2 cycle oil is like peeing in the ocean it ain't going to do anything really...

__________________

Michael Nelson - 2002 Dodge Cummins

[D-Roc]

I stopped using PS after I found out what it does. I only use a bit of Howes now for cleaning or cold temps. But I always use 2 stroke.

[Racer9]

Interesting reading from Power Service:

It is interesting to know that the Department of Energy in conjunction
with Clean Cities Tennessee conducted testing using our Diesel Kleen.
Diesel Kleen is similar to DFS. Diesel Kleen has the same detergent,
Cetane Boost but has more of it. Diesel Kleen does not contain an
antigel so it has more of these two ingredients. Both have the same
lubricity package and will protect fuel pumps. Anyway, the testing
conducted by Clean Cities, which is a respected organization across the
USA, shows that fuel economy was increased and emissions were decreased
(NOx emissions went down 9 to 28%). To make this test even harder they
used B20 Biodiesel which is 20% vegetable with 80% Number 2 Diesel Fuel.
Biodiesel increases NOx emissions and when they saw the reductions in
NOx emissions they were impressed. The increase in fuel economy more
than paid for the use of the additive. Wal Mart Transportation found out
about these results and last summer conducted their own testing using
their own trucks on their own proving grounds and 1/3 through the
testing they stopped the test and signed a contract to treat every
gallon of fuel they purchased across the entire USA to be treated with
Diesel Kleen because of the improved benefits. This winter every load of
their fuel is treated with DFS. We also have testing showing that the
lubricity claims are true. The current lubricity standard established by
the ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials) is not adequate
enough to protect the fuel pumps. This is information according to the
Fuel Pump Manufacturers and the EMA (Engine Manufacturer Association)
confirms that the lubricity standard should be lower.

It is amazing that it doesn't take much additive to give the type of
results mentioned above. Some people cannot grasp this concept and think
you have to add gallons in the fuel to get these effects. Chemistry is
best left up to the scientists and chemists who understand and know how
things really work. There is a lot of misinformation on the internet and
a lot of it is based on anything but the real facts. I would like to
caution using motor oil in diesel fuel. Even though the concept is
appealing and sounds logical it can cause a lot of problems. For
example, if the motor oil contains zinc then zinc can react with the
water in the system and can form a hydroxide gel that can shorten filter
life. Zinc can also react with organic acids in the fuel and can foul
fuel injectors. Other chemicals that can be in motor oil can also speed
up fuel degradation.

When you surf the web you can believe the hype or the facts and
sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference. As for me I would not
add any motor oil to the fuel.

2 cycle motor oil contains many of the metals that are in crankcase oil and should not be used in regular diesel vehicles. Another reason they should not be used is that they are illegal and can be harmful for people to inhale. At one time used oil was allowed to be added to diesel fuel as a means of disposal and over a short period of time the error of this method was soon realized. Many transportation companies had to spend thousands of dollars to clean up the fuel tanks and repair damaged parts in their vehicles and the EPA realized the emission consequences.

Using unused motor oil and even 2-cycle motor oil is not a good ideal. Oil has many additives, such as lubricants, detergents, anti-acids/corrosion inhibitors, chemicals to disperse soot (magnesium) and viscosity improvers. Simply If it is not meant to be combusted in your vehicle you should not use it unless you conduct testing to see what effects it has in the fuel and combustion chamber. When you add chemicals without knowing the interactions you are gambling and the odds are against you. First it is not hard to create chemical imbalances which lead to fuel degradation, chemical separation, less efficiencies in the combustion chamber and possible damage to engine components and filters, not to mention harmful emissions or simply more emissions.

2-cycle oil for the most part is used in gasoline engines. There are less 2-cycle applications today than in the past for many reasons. When it comes to 2-cycle diesel engines these are mostly large stable type engines on a platform and they usually use high sulfur fuel which makes it a pollution machine. 2-cycle oil is not ash less and can contribute to build ups in the combustion chamber. In your vehicle this is not desirable.

When it comes to Marvel Mystery Oil we have conducted lubricity testing and it does not improve fuel lubricity. Using MMO with Diesel Kleen or Diesel Fuel Supplement, in my opinion, is a waste of money. Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement (DFS) does all the work by improving fuel economy and increasing the lubricity of the fuel and MMO gets a free ride.

I suggest using DFS in the winter months to help prevent fuel gelling and use Diesel Kleen in the non-winter months. Diesel Kleen does not contain an antigel so there is more room for more detergents and more Cetane Boost which gives you more benefits in the non-winter months. Both have the same lubricity package to get the lubricity of the fuel where the Fuel Pump Manufacturers really want it.

Also, I would caution not to mix two different chemicals in one bottle. For example if you use DFS and our Diesel 911 in the fuel they are compatible with each other and give additional benefits. If you mix these two in a bottle without adding anything else the Diesel 911 will strip out the antigel in the DFS and cause it to go to the bottom of the bottle. When you add this to the fuel the antigel stays in the bottle and you are not protected against fuel gelling. Unless you know how 2 or more chemicals will interact you should not mix them in the same bottle and then later add them to the fuel.

Just keep in mind that some of the people in the chat rooms often are salesmen trying to sell their product and are acting as if they are only a user. Some of these people in the chat rooms have an agenda, are trying to make people think they know more than they really do and can totally mis-lead others. This does not mean that all information in the chat rooms is bad. Probably most of it is beneficial information but often you can't tell what is good info and what is hype.

Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.

Brian Wilson

bwilson@powerservice.com
Compliance Coordinator
Technical Advisor
800-643-9089

__________________

'96 CTD, 4X4 flatbed, Isspro gauges, Skyjacker D-25's, ThurenFab track bar, lockRite.

Motor; BHAF, #100 fuel plate, Shimmed gov springs, Loose starwheel.

Exhaust; 16cm housing, 4" downpipe, 5" turnout stacks.

Trans; Dunrite VB/TC, Intelligent Engineering billet input shaft, Burt Brown rebuild/upgrade.

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm sorry but Cummins Engines have been running on waste engine oil for a while now... I guess the above statement must not have very much truth... If there was a problem with burning waste engine oil or a EPA issue with it Cummins would not of designed Centinel (tm) and continue to produce the kit...

Cummins.com > Investors And Media > Press Releases

Remember we are talking WASTE ENGINE OIL here too.

Also sound like a scare tactic to make you stay away from home brew ideas... :fist: How do you think PS and MMO came to be? someone bewing up there own ideas... Like I shown above if there was a problem Centinel (tm) never would of been born... This is used on Cummins Engines...

How did Biodiesel / WVO come to be?? Someone doing some homebrewing... I'm going to continue my work with 2 cycle oils and keep a track record of what I find and learn...

I would highly consider some of the chemical these scientist and blending up in a bottle and telling you its safe to burn in your fuel... Like paint thinner, xylene, naptha or even better yet cancer causing chemical! Sorry but there thing are considered to be HAZMAT... (hazardous materials)... So I'll stick to the petroluem stuff and not the chemisty labs as above!

__________________

Michael Nelson - 2002 Dodge Cummins

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Last edited by Mopar1973Man : 02-16-2007 at 09:56 PM.

[Racer9]

Just curious Mopar1973man, do you have an engineering or chemistry background?
I am interested in what everyone says, and am not trying to start a war.

__________________

'96 CTD, 4X4 flatbed, Isspro gauges, Skyjacker D-25's, ThurenFab track bar, lockRite.

Motor; BHAF, #100 fuel plate, Shimmed gov springs, Loose starwheel.

Exhaust; 16cm housing, 4" downpipe, 5" turnout stacks.

Trans; Dunrite VB/TC, Intelligent Engineering billet input shaft, Burt Brown rebuild/upgrade.

[Mopar1973Man]

Originally Posted by Racer9

Just curious Mopar1973man, do you have an engineering or chemistry background?
I am interested in what everyone says, and am not trying to start a war.

Neither... I use common sense here... If the Fuel companies are removing a product known to be a lubrcant. Well the same thing to do is replace it.

First, I want to concentrate on the loss of the sulfur and why this is important to you. Sulfur is an Extreme Pressure (EP) lubricant. It is regularly added to lubricating oils and greases to increase the lubricity and to raise the amount of pressure that the lubricant can handle before the lubricating molecular barrier begins to break down. Sulfur has always been a vitally important factor in providing lubrication to diesel engine fuel pumps, fuel injectors, and to a lesser degree engine valves.

In 1993 the EPA forced the reduction of sulfur in on-highway diesel fuels from an unlimited amount (typically ½ to 1% (5,000 to 10,000 ppm), although occasionally as high as 2% (20,000 ppm)) to a maximum of 500 ppm (.05%). At that time, there was a 12 to 24 month period where significant problems with failures of some metallic fuel system components such as pumps and injectors due to the dramatic lowering of lubricity and with seals, gaskets, and other rubber or synthetic components due to the reduction of elasticity caused by removing the sulfur. It was nearly two years before changes were completed in the new engines that ameliorated those problems and repairs made to older engines that controlled these problems.

So how do we protect against this since the 2nd Gen trucks are designed to run on LSD not ULSD which is now inforced.

Don't bother quoting email from companies... This does nothing but start a war. The company of course is going to defend its product and tell us that we are doing damage by adding 2 cycle oil. You'll get this same reaction from every company that you email asking about comparing 2 cycle oil and there product... So let not go there...

As for store products I don't think that they are designing for lubricity. Most of them are certane boosters and anti-gels which are both going to be a solvent to reduced the flash point of the fuel.

I'm doing this to lubricate my pumps. Nothing more! I'm not worried about certane levels or pour point temps. So are for comparing apple to apples I suggest we stay to a oil discuusion... Trying to compare 2 cycle oil to PS or MMO is like apple to oranges again... So let not start quoting email form big comanies... There is no comparsion...

__________________

Michael Nelson - 2002 Dodge Cummins

[Frank J. Shattuck]

I don't understand how adding 2 cycle oil to fuel will give you better fuel mileage. Looks to me like it should do the opposite.
Frank

[cap-j]

Originally Posted by Frank J. Shattuck

I don't understand how adding 2 cycle oil to fuel will give you better fuel mileage. Looks to me like it should do the opposite.
Frank

Frank,
The 2 Cycle Oil is for added lubricity for the fuel supply system. That is it... as I understand it.

There has been statements of added or decreased MPG's by people.

The reason for adding it is for the lubricity though.

__________________
Have a good one & remember....... "Your mileage may vary." <>< __________________________________________________ __________
1993 D-250 LE Club Cab ... 5.9 L / 360cid CTD ... 5 spd Getrag ... SRW
256,000 miles... 21.6 MPG Hwy. MDH / 030817
..Pretty much stock as far as I know... ??? ... .... 160 hp / 400 ft.lb.

[BamaDodge]

I am already putting the dieselkleen in mine every tank, (about half of the small bottle per tank) would it be o.k. to add the two stroke oil with it?

__________________
2004 Dodge Quad Cab 3500 4X4
HO Cummins 48RE Auto Trans,.3.73 gears, Edge EZ Module,Straight 4" exhaust,Air-Aid filter, Air Intake Baffle and Turbo Silencer Ring removed

[D-Roc]

Absolutely. Just run the recommended amount of additive to your 2 stroke. You can have too much of a good thing.

[BamaDodge]

How does 16 oz. of Diesel Kleen and 16 oz. of 2 stroke per tank sound? Will this be to much?

__________________
2004 Dodge Quad Cab 3500 4X4
HO Cummins 48RE Auto Trans,.3.73 gears, Edge EZ Module,Straight 4" exhaust,Air-Aid filter, Air Intake Baffle and Turbo Silencer Ring removed