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2-cycle Oils - Recommended List

130K views 369 replies 124 participants last post by  Mad Garden Gnome 
#1 · (Edited)
Alright, I made the 2-cycle Oils list into an image file and you can copy it from there if you want the latest version. You can find the list by clicking the link.

Recommended list - Updated (1/17/07)

Hope this helps.
:thumbsup
 
#37 ·
Try this.........

2 Stroke..... 1 ounce per gallon fuel

Diesel Kleen ....... 1/3 or .32 ounce per gallon fuel
 
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#40 ·
I did that myself some months back with PS. I was definitely using too much. Now I use a litre of 2 stroke per fill and only the recommended amount of Howes.
 
#41 ·
wish someone would do the math for me :) how many differant tanks are there for the dodges between teh gen ones and gen three's? 34 gallon, 26 gallon and..? can't someone just make an easy post like:

34 gallon tanks = Xoz of PS and Xoz of 2 cycle
26 gallon tanks = Xoz of PS and Xoz of 2 cycle

Anyway, this would make things so much easier.

Problem seems to be the mass amount of differant additives on the market and each persons individual experience with each type and amount of each type. I have been using 16oz of PS (the white bottle) and 8oz of MMO. I planned to swap from MMO to 2 cycle oil for either the next fill up or the one soon after. According to this forum, 16oz of PS is to much...according to other forums it's just right. PS has lubricant in it, how much I don't know but regardless it's more then ULSD and there for, I see no problem in using a slightly higher amount. If I am using to much PS, whats worse, running a full tank with nothing but ULSD or slightly more then this forums recommendation of PS with slightly less recommended 2 cycle? It seems to all come down to one popular persons vote for every forum I have checked out and this confuses the hell out of the rest of us.
 
#42 ·
personally i think it's a crap shoot.
all of the companys that make ad's have smart people working for them.
when they put directions on the bottle they are not doing that to hurt themselves.
i say follow the directions.:thumbsup
once used mmo also but now the 2 stroke, aprox. 1 qt per tank.
watch were i get fuel and every filter change it really still looks ok.
filter about every 5 thou.
no pro just listen to them, good luck.
 
#45 ·
That's on good reason why I keep a calculator in the center console with my fuel log book! :rof Makes it really easy to figure my MPG's, oil amounts, etc... :thumbsup
 
#46 ·
ohhhhhhhhhhh, there goes another brain cramp!:rof :rof
 
#47 ·
is it safe to use the Wal Mart (super tech) OUTBOARD 2 stroke oil, thats all we have at our local wal mart and i bought 1 16oz bottle of it tonight and poured it in....if its not the stuff i should use i will discontinue it, but i figured id try it. Let me know if the Super Tech outboard is ok to use or if i need to find the universal super tech 2 stroke!
 
#48 ·
CumminsCrazed,
You should be just fine with the outboard kind. It's pretty close to the other, the only difference is a few more additives to cope with water and oxidation (both found in outboard conditions). In a diesel system, those minor additives will only help your system stay clean and rust free. Hope this helps.
:thumbsup
 
#49 ·
sweet, i put it in last night AFTER filling my tank......hopefully itll mix ok......im hoping me driving around will mix it up ok, i have yet to notice a change in the scent of my diesel or any noise change of the engine
 
#50 ·
CC,

I bought a gallon ofWall Mart Super Tech and so far I have no problems from using it. Like I said the other day I mixed my gallon of 2 cycle oil with a gallon of winter PS and from that mix I use 1 oz per gallon. Once that is used up it will be warmer weather I was thinking to try out 1 gallon of 2 cycle oil to 3 qt of summer PS to see if I gain any mpg's.

If you only used 16 oz in 34 gallons then when you refill only add 1/2 oz per for each gallon you put back in. Try it that way for 2-3 tanks and then up the 2 cycle oil to 1 oz per gallon to see if you get any increase in mpg's from the extra 2 cycle oil. Oh being you buy your fuel at Fleet Farm have you been adding PS to your tank?
 
#52 ·
CC,

I bought a gallon ofWall Mart Super Tech and so far I have no problems from using it. Like I said the other day I mixed my gallon of 2 cycle oil with a gallon of winter PS and from that mix I use 1 oz per gallon. Once that is used up it will be warmer weather I was thinking to try out 1 gallon of 2 cycle oil to 3 qt of summer PS to see if I gain any mpg's.

If you only used 16 oz in 34 gallons then when you refill only add 1/2 oz per for each gallon you put back in. Try it that way for 2-3 tanks and then up the 2 cycle oil to 1 oz per gallon to see if you get any increase in mpg's from the extra 2 cycle oil. Oh being you buy your fuel at Fleet Farm have you been adding PS to your tank?
WRONG! This is to much PS! When you mixed then now you adding 16 ozs of PS and 16 Ozs of 2 Cycle oil! This is totally wrong! :thud: Not to mention you are changing the chemical composition of the two when mixing them in a single jug now...

The most PS you will ever need is 9-10 Ozs of Power Service... You need 32 Ozs of 2 cycle oil to here a difference... But you won't need the PS since 2 cycle oil has anti-gel properties..:thumbsup

I've gotten down to -20.2*F and never gelled yet with straight 2 cycle oil mixed at 1 quart to 1 full tank of fuel... Power Service is not required with 2 cycle oil...:thumbsup
 
#51 ·
no..............why?
 
#55 ·
In the summer time, no one is really going to use the white bottle PS ( the one for anti-gel) but instead will be using the grey bottle that is basically for higher cetane, injection cleaning, fuel economy (as avertised on the bottle) and quieter operation. In fact PS states ON the bottle that it is good for ULSD. Now you are saying NOT to use ANY PS? Hello? Am I missing something here? 2 cycle is NOT an injection cleaner, it's designed to burn cleaner but that won't stop deposits. It might be a better over all lubricant and is why I am now running 2 cycle but I am still going to use PS.

The Grey PS shows a full bottle of PS to a 50 gallon tank will give +6 cetane, since I don't have a 50 gallon tank I have lowered to 16oz even though i know it was stated not to use more then 10.88oz for a 34 gallon tank. I am using 32oz of 2 cycle though as well. Which is about 3 times more then the amount of MMO I was previously using.

Everyone has differant experiences with all the additives and some have more faith in one over another. Just because someones parts went bad and they have done some independant study of thier own doesn't prove it was a paticular additive that caused the problem. One could argue that you shouldn't add ANYTHING including 2 cycle oil to your tank. I don't recall my manual stating that in addition to filling up with diesel, I should add a bottle of any type of additive to my fuel. Does Cummins recommend anything added to diesel fuel for the dodge engine?

The way I see it is, stick to what you know/have experience with/is name brand and you should be fine.
 
#56 · (Edited)
Dodge/Mopar doesn't suggest you add anything to your fuel...

But Cummins has produces a device call Centinel and is being used on many different models of Cummins engines. It burns waste engine oil from the crankcase in small amounts. Since Cummins allows up to 5% (1.75 Gallons) of WEO to be burned in your fuel then there is no problem with adding clean oil as a lubricant. Since engine oil has ASH in it will leave deposits in time. But most modern 2 cycle oils are ASHLESS. So now your getting the best of both worlds. Bonus! 2 cycle oil act like a anti-gel additive too..

So would you be willing to dump in Mineral Spirits, Xylene, or Naptha in your fuel? (these are found in most additives - Also found in your local hardware stores)







Now here is some material safety data sheets on common products...

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/pdfs/MSDS/marvel_mystery/marvel_mystery_oil.pdf <-Marvel Mystery Oil

https://www.amsoil.com/msds/adf.pdfhttps://www.amsoil.com/msds/acb.pdf <- AMSOil Additive
 
#57 · (Edited)
I am using PS, you didn't mention anything bad about PS other then it isn't adding any more lubricant then ULSD is adding. But, I am not using it for the lubricant, thats what teh MMO and 2 cycle was for. Now I have seen more and more people changing over from MMO to 2 cycle and your explination pounds home the reason NOT to use MMO over 2 cycle. So with that, I agree. But..as I said, you didn't mention anything bad about PS other then not having any more lubricant then ULSD and I use it for the certane and the advertised fuel economy. The MSDS didn't show me any of those 3 things you mentioned that are bad, unless I missed it some place.


EDIT: ALthough I must say, adding those other things although not good for the engine, the amount of added oil we're putting into the engine, generally far more then the average diesel owner probably does, should in some cases outweigh the down side, of course depending on how much of those "paint thinner" your actually adding. I will admit, I am no expert and I agree with you on most of what you have said and what you have learned, but the PS thing is what is currently holding me back from agreeing with you 100%.
 
#58 ·
Ok got that covered too...

Here is the Diesel Specification sheet...
http://www.cenexenergy.com/Downloads/2ULSDSpec_2006.pdf

Take notice to the HFRR index is 520. All fuel is suppose to meet 520 as a maximum number.

Power Service Products "FAQ"

Here is the FAQ out of PS web site. Take notice it only will meet to 520 HFRR index. This is not a improvement in lubricity of the fuel if the diesel fuel is already 520 HFRR.

Now here is the MSDS for PowerService that I found on the web.
http://www2.itap.purdue.edu/msds/docs/3005.pdf

Also take notice to the 1-3% of Hydrocarbons (which is most likely to be the lubricant)

Now seeing this 1-3% of 10 ozs of PS is going to be a extremely small amount of lubricant!

So now do me a favor pour a small amount in a old dish. Leave it sit out for a week or so. Tell me what happens? The answer is the solvents evaporate and leave behind a sticky mess. If it was a true lubricant it would not evaporate. Some thing to consider also...
 
#59 · (Edited)
Well as I said, I don't by the PS for the lubricity, I buy it for the certane, cleaning affect and mileage. Now, why in the hell would i bother leaving some PS sitting in a bowl for a week? The PS is mixed with diesel and 2 stroke oil and it certainly isn't sitting in my tank for a week and even if i do manage to go a week on the same fuel it's getting bounced around that whole time.

So do ME a favor, mix some diesel, a proper amount of 2 stroke oil and a proper amount of PS in a bowl and put it on something that will vibrate to simulate driving conditions. Then after a week you tell me what you come up with. Lets see if you come up with the same results.

EDIT: btw, you seem to be heavily focused on lubricant. You realize that PS is more then just a lubricant right? It's also an injection cleaner. CLeaners are generally solvents of some kind. THe addition of 2 stroke oil, or any other oil for that matter is to add additional lubricant to the already low ULSD and will also help in prevention of solvents destroying the injection pumps and anything else that a solvent could inherantly destroy. I have already agreed that PS isn't the best thing to use if your doing it ONLY for lubricant and I have also already stated that I am using 32oz of 2 stroke...so still, until you have tried out my little experiment, I still can't agree with you 100%.
 
#60 ·
Ok... The only reason why you got to do the bowl trick without diesel or 2 cycle oil added is because neither on of these things evaporate so you'll never see the end result. Also it proves hows much solvents are actually in a product. If there is any lubricates left it will be left behind.

As for needing cleaner. I truely don't see a need to use cleaners in the fuel at all. As for certane levels all fuel meet or exceed current standard of certane levels at the pump for the Cummins requirements... So there is really a need there... I will admit that using 2 cycle oil will offset the flash point of the fuel a bit but as long as you stay to 32 ozs or less to a tank there is no changes MPG or power that I can tell. In excess of this you find a loss as high as 70 HP (3 quarts to a tank)

As for a lubricant story talk to Duluth Diesel (AMSOil Dealer) about how you diesel fuel is delievered stations. He'll open your eyes about how fuel is delievered to the local station...:w:

What conserns me is that fact remains. Our truck (2nd Gens) where designed for LSD fuels. 500ppm sulfur levels. Even then there has be many IP/LP failures with this fuel. Now the fuel is 15ppm or less! So now using fuel additive/cleaner products could possible raise the HFRR wear scar more.

I will admit that PS claims it meet the minimum standard of 520 HFRR for its additive. But that's not the problem... 2nd Gen trucks where designed for 250-300 HFRR fuels not 520 HFRR! So we are already sitting on a razor edge (wearing limits of the LP/IP pumps) so additional additives could increase this problem.

Just my 2 cents... Hoping to keep the a good debate...:thumbsup
 
#61 ·
JFYI all you doubters or fence sitter out there....also if you didn't want to read the 50+pages of the other thread!!!:lol3: I've run nothing but 2 stroke oil in my 3rd generation now since I started that other thread. Even through this past winter, and we had numerous days of below zero temps. Many many miles driven and sitting shut down in -10 to -20 degree weather. That's right, no PS, antigel or any of that stuff. My truck started everyday and ran perfectly with only 2 stroke oil as an additive. Mopar's research stated that 2 stroke oil has a lower pour point than ULSD, so adding it to your fuel will help lower the pour point of your fuel. My Walbro fuel pump probably helps pump the fuel when it does get cold as my fuel pressure goes up 4-5 psi and that's going through 2 fuel filters too. I do keep my truck in an UNHEATEDgarage overnight also.:thumbsup

Many of you naysayers seem to have the mind set......."Don't confuse me with the facts when my mind is already made up." Just give it a try for a tank or two and see if what we've been telling you is true or not!!:thumbsup
 
#70 ·
Many of you naysayers seem to have the mind set......."Don't confuse me with the facts when my mind is already made up." Just give it a try for a tank or two and see if what we've been telling you is true or not!!:thumbsup
Again, I am not using PS for the lube. I was using the white bottle PS for the anti-gel but other than that, i use the grey PS for everything else other than lube and anti-gel. I am also not disagreeing with the findings people have come up with. Sure, it probably does have solvents, most cleaners do. I am driving a 3rd gen, so maybe my injection pump is not as sensative as the one for 2nd gen. What I do know is my truck runs better with the PS in the tank. Many people have said the same thing. As a matter of fact, I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that more people agree it works then there are those that say it doesn't work.

Again, not disagreeing with your findings, I am just saying, I don't think there is enough harmful solvents to cause problems, especially when you consider how much 2 cycle is being added in at the same time. PS has been around a very long time, don't you think that if their product was the sole cause of break downs there would be a lot more people speaking out against it?

Ok... The only reason why you got to do the bowl trick without diesel or 2 cycle oil added is because neither on of these things evaporate so you'll never see the end result. Also it proves hows much solvents are actually in a product. If there is any lubricates left it will be left behind.
If you're not going to see a result, then what basis is there saying it's going to harm your engine? You can leave KY jelly out for an hour and it will gum up, that mean you should not use it for those "special times"?

I suppose this debate could go round and round for ages, and probably will so I am going to leave it at that. I just want to make it clear that I am not disagreeing with your facts, I am just saying that I don't believe there is enough evidence to prove PS is the cause of your engine problems especially considering the extensive history of this product. So don't use it as a lubricant....I never have. Don't use it as an anti-gel...probably won't now that I am using 32oz of 2 stroke. Don't use it to clean deposits...why not? Don't use it to bump up certane levels....why not?
 
#62 ·
Thank you Dorkweed... I needed the backing up...:thumbsup
 
#63 ·
Mopar1973man,

Once I mix the 2-cycle oil and PS together (50/50) I then use 1 oz per gallon. From this mix 1 oz per gallon should equal ½ oz of PS and ½ oz of 2-cycle oil. Yes I know you say 1/2oz per gallon is too much PS. But if I use a quart of 2-cycle oil per 32 gallons (1 oz per gallon) with out PS my mileage goes down 2.5 mpg in my 2006 engine.

The mpg loss is why I have gone to the mix that I use right now (PS & 2 cycle oil mixed 50/50) as when I use this mix my mileage goes back up compared to losing mpg when I use straight 2-cycle oil. So as I see it my choice is to use my mix or none at all, as a loss of 2.5 mpg is too big of a loss in mileage for my pocket book. And like I said before once the weather warms up I will try using straight 2-cycle oil with out PS but if my mileage goes down then I will go back to using my own mix.

Also you said and I quote “Not to mention you are changing the chemical composition of the two when mixing them in a single jug now” How is this any different then if they mix together in the tank? FYI, I do it this way so that I only have to carry around and pour out of one bottle and not 2.
 
#66 ·
Forgive my ignorance here: Doesn't Iowa (like Minnesota) have an x% bio-mandate??? That and/or winter diesel could cause your mileage drop. Does Southern Missouri sell winter diesel also??? Came back from there 3 weeks ago and got 20.4mpg coming back running at 2k rpm's. If that's winter fuel, that's pretty good!!
 
#64 ·
CumminsCrazed,

The reason I asked if you use PS is that the fuel you get from Fleet Farm is good to -30 below zero. Also I didn't want you to be spending money to buy and add anti-gel when the fuel you use already had it mixed in.
 
#65 ·
i know lol.
 
#68 ·
BTW, I just got back home and they tell me that in my wifes car they have to replace PCM. I'm sure glad Dodge has to pay for the PCM :$: and the loner car too :$: Anyway did you get close to my wifes car over the weekend (it was in side all weekend with very few people around) because you are drumming up brownie points at work :lol3:
 
#67 ·
DORKWEED,

Iowa does not have a Bio mandate that Bio has to be mixed in to our diesel fuel. In fact I have not heard of anyone who has Bio in my area. Our winter fuel is mixed between 70/30, (70% #2 and 30% #1) and up to 50/50. Here locally and the last that I heard our winter blend has been in the 70/30 range with the exception of Mills Fleet Farm = MFF. MFF claims to only sell Artic Diesel, that is straight #2 diesel with whatever secret additive Flint Hills adds to it so that no anti-gel additive is needed, as it is good to –30 below zero.

Anyway my mpg loss was based on 70/30-winter fuel with 1 oz per gallon of straight 2-cycle oil with out PS. But when I went to a mix where I only used ½ oz of each my mpg came back up. Also now that I have used over 34 gallons of diesel from the last time I used 2 cycle and PS my mpg has gone up but I think its because the last 27 gallons has been from MFF. Today I refueled with Artic Diesel and when I got home I added 16 oz of my 50/50 mix. So I’ll see what it does to my mpg based on my overhead and then latter on to see if it makes dollars and cents to keep it in my tank if I keep buying fuel at MFF.
 
#69 ·
DBLR,
Just curious, what was your mileage without any additives, with PS only, with 2-cycle oil only, and with the two mixed?? If you have that info, I'd love to get some numbers to keep track of. That kind of information is invaluable. Thanks.
:thumbsup
 
#74 ·
I hope the below info will help.
---------------------------------------

I can’t say exactly what my mpg is with out additives as I’ve been using it from almost day one. IIRC my mpg when new with its first tank of fuel was about 15.25. Now with PS and MMO I would get around 17 to 17.5 combo driving in mid October through mid December temps.

When I started to use 2-cycle oil it went down to 14.5 to 15.05 mpg (the lowest mpg I can recall ever getting) but the temps were in the 10 above to –25 below zero range. So with the mpg loss I started to use PS once more and on the next tank that I have no way to know how much of what was in the tank it went back up to 15.5 (temps were still in the 5 above to –15 below zero range) and as I started to adjust my PS and 2 cycle oil it finally went back to the 16.9 to 17.2 range. But the weather did warm up some during that time too.

On my last few fill ups, about 40 gals of diesel I have not added any thing to my tank and on a 300-mile road trip over the weekend my mpg went up to 19.4. But I was also using 40% Artic Diesel fuel and 70/30 winter mix LSD or so the station pump sticker said to not use in 2007 engines. I’m still trying to figure if the mpg loss is because of the cold temps and ULSD or my 06 truck has so few miles on it, just over 13K. One other thing from Oct 10th on ward I had winter weight synthetic 5w40 Rotella oil in the engine until about 10 days ago when I went to Amsoil 5w30 HDD oil. Also before I went to winter oil I used Delvac15w40.
 
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