Cummins Diesel Forum banner

NV5600 to FSO6406A 6 speed Fuller

1M views 2K replies 248 participants last post by  gbcummin 
#1 · (Edited)
2001 Dodge 3500, 112,000 mi, 5.9 Cummins, 4X 4, Long Bed with NV5600 6 speed transmission. Just went out again for the 3rd time. Failures were at 82,000, 97,000 and now at 112,000. Had regular dealer service. Use it to haul a 40' gooseneck and a Case 1155E loader tipping the scales at 25,000 lbs.

Parts are really hard to find. Last time I had to buy a core for $500 just to get parts for the rebuild by a heavy truck tranny shop. Problem seems to be in the 5-6 gear section with seized bearings.

Spoke with a rebuild shop in Ohio and they have started drilling lube holes in the case and bearing shell and claim they have not had any failures since they started. Anyone have experience with this procedure???

I am changing the NV5600 out for a Fuller FSO-6406A. It has a 660 HP rating with 6th OD at .78. These ratings are close to that of the NV5600.

This is not new or innovative. The Freightliner FL 70 has used the FS6406 6 speed since '93 and Ford has used Fuller's with Cummins on the F650 and F750 since 2003.

Since Fuller never has had a married transfer case, the transfer case would have to be divorced. Need to find the correct clutch set up that is used with the medium duty truck. Would need a #2 SAE flywheel housing and 1-3/4" clutch.

Parts are readily availabe for Fuller and never have to worry about synthetic oils--should be good for 500k miles or more.

Local trans shop has a NV5600 for $1000. Needs output shaft and bearing. Synchros and all gears look good. Mine will be available as soon as I complete the change-over. I suppose someone will want pictures and part numbers.
 
See less See more
#1,121 ·
Since I am NOT an "Engineer" I'd guess that if you are not using you Ram as a working HD "Tow Truck" etc., etc., and using the transmission as a structural support, it would not make much difference.

On the other hand..
I'm in another category and mounting other than with a frame brace I am guessing would get me a nice puddle of oil under my attitude.

good luck,
pc
 
#1,122 · (Edited)
Fuller Transmission Lubricants

This question comes up many times. Due to the introduction of the new automated transmissions by Eaton and ZF, the use of synthetic oils was introduced and because they provide good wear prevention, they are also used in older transmissions. Synthetics have also been recommended for the Fuller FS and FSO transmissions. These are some that are being used; Castrol's Syndrive 50E, Mobil's Mobiltrans SHC50 and many others that meet the Eaton requirements

You have a wide selection of lubricants that can be used in your Fuller 5 or 6 speed transmissions. The selection criteria is the ambient temperature you operate in and conditions under which you operate your vehicle (light to heavy haul).

Since our little Fullers don't have any shinny brass, we have more latitude in our selection. Basically, engine oils designed for use in "diesel engines" will work provided they meet the following spec; MIL-L-2104D, API-CD, API-GL-4 or Cat TO-4

This is from

Fuller Heavy Duty Transmissions
TRSM0110
June 2010

Lubricants must meet
MIL-L-2104D, API-CD, API-GL-4 or Cat TO-4

Diesel engine oils conforming to
Transmission Oil 50 All

Heavy Duty Engine Oil
MIL-L-2104D, API-CD, API-GL-4 or Cat TO-4

50 Above 10° F (-12° C)
40 Above 10° F (-12° C)
30 Below 10° F (-12° C)

Additives and friction modifiers must not be introduced.
Never mix engine oils & gear oils in the same transmission.

I use an 80wt gear oil since I pull heavy and operate in warm to very hot weather. In winter, the oil is thicker, however it is easy to shift, even in sub-zero conditions.

Hope this has helped.

Paul
 
  • Like
Reactions: John-e Bravada
#1,123 ·
I've been searching Craigslist and there are 2 fuller 6 speed transmissions in the Dallas area that are a pretty good deal, I have already got mine and all the extra parts needed to do my swap. Want to see one of you guys get these for your swaps too.
 
#1,124 ·
After a visit to Chalk's here in Houston and a few other trans specialists,
Mystic Para Syn 50 is what's in many Eatons and mine.
I like the idea of para-synthetic too.

I've no complaints.
The box isn't hot, it shifts fine and is quiet.

The only thing I don't like is the price of the stuff :doh:

pc
 
#1,125 · (Edited)
Fuller Transmission

pocketchange,

I haven't traveled much in the past few years, however I just got back from a 2200 mile round trip and it was enjoyable.

The Fuller was really quiet with little or no stick vibration. The tranny let me know that the 4:10 diff was not turning fast enough. Engine and trans had a lot more to go, but the diff was max'd out.

I have a 1942 G506 1.5 Ton Chevy, a 1994 6BT P-pumped ready, and the front/rear disc axles from a 2007 MRAP to mate with my FSO-8406A, trans adapter and a 271HD transfer case.

Here is one that was adapted well.....


My truck as it sits today


This will be a winter project. I am approaching the age of 68 and I just can't figure out why I just don't sit on my hands and let things be as they are. I still have the energy, aptitude and willingness to keep things going. Oh well, I'll stop when I'm 80 plus.

Paul
 
#1,126 ·
No you won't..

We are pea's in a pod.

I'm looking to sell my rig simply because I'm tired of truckin' (nearly 50 years is enough). In the meantime I've picked up a motor home to keep me busy.

Then (yesterday) I visit my eye Dr. and he preforms the YAG process to an eye that was cloudy and now I'm off to the races (again). :party018:

Anyone needing a hotshot rig let me know..

pc

Ps. Excellent idea BTW.
 
#1,128 ·
Fellow gear-heads,<br />
<br />
I have been reading/re-reading this thread for a while now and finally got off my butt and registered. Aside from some of the unrelated drama I've got to say I'm completely impressed by the ingenuity presented by the members here.<br />
<br />
My own situation in a nutshell: having a somewhat neglected '87 D100 shortbed that I transplanted onto a '93 W250 (totaled by a schoolbus) after chopping 34" out of the middle. Got sick of watching the 1st gen roof-rot (should have gotten off my lazy butt and re-painted it 10 years ago when I built it). Found a cheap '85 1-ton w/4-spd manual (360 gasser) and going to do re-cab #2 and leave my slush-box behind.<br />
<br />
Craigslist revealed an FS-5406A that I scooped up with a good clutch, flywheel and pressure plate. Spent waayy too much time on the internet finding the elusive #2 flywheel housing w/drv side starter location. (Thought about going to the pass side option but didn't like the idea of the down pipe cooking the starter all the time.) The '85 cab has mechanical clutch linkage and I'm thinking about just going that route. The trans did have a slave cyl. bracket but it sticks up a bit and I'm trying to "keep a low profile" under the tunnel. <br />
<br />
Although the flywheel housing has mounting bosses for rear engine support, it seems to me like that leaves an awful lotta weight cantilevered off the rear. My tranny came with a drum parking brake so it has the flanged rear bearing housing and I'm considering fabricating a crossmember that bolts up to that (with a rubber trans mount, of course).<br />
<br />
Looking forward to purchasing the gears for the FSO conversion, and being a (former?) truck driver, I'm not particularly worried about having 6th toward the dash. (If memory serves, I drove a '75 Pete logging truck that had that pattern, along with a 4 spd. brownie.)<br />
<br />
I guess I'm wondering how many others across the country are doing the Fuller swap at this minute? Seemed like every time I found a flywheel housing and made the call someone else had just bought it. I will post pictures as work proceeds.<br />
<br />
Thanks to all that have provided inspiration!<br />
John
 
#1,129 · (Edited)
I have an FSO 6408a in my truck w/a NP205 gear case(divorce mounted)I have the part munbers for the right flywheel housing,flywheel and slave cylinder thru Dodge.I thought I posted all the pics of the build I did.As I didn't have any options.I broke the 5 speed and the transfer case is a joke.My advice is to refabricate the rear transmission mount as Dodge is using this as part of the frame support.I removed the top of my cross member and weld 1/4" plate for strength in place of what I took off.As far as the slave goes I just got a used release arm and made into what I needed,made a bracket off of the top of the case to mount it.Got 2 iso mounts from Jegs and made the stand offs from transmission to the cross member.Found a place that makes yokes for the transfer case to the transmission 1510 to 1510 w/the right spline for the transfer case.Fab'd up a mounting plate for transfer case top supports all outta 1/4 and braced it all.Drilled out the stock cross member mounting bolts and put thru tube thru the frame and welded them in and then used 5/8" mounting bolts.To get the transmission and engine back as close to the original angle I had to cut the ears off of the flywheel housing and do alot of beating w/a big hammer in the tunnel area to get the transmission up where it needed to be and give room for the reverse switch.So I have 4 wheel drive w/ this as well as the transmission.It just fit in there.And I never had any trouble except I used a 4 wheel shifter outta an late 70's -to late 80's shifter from a Chevy or GMC and haven't finished cutting the hole out big enough to get 4wheel low range as w/this transmission has a very low 1st gear.If you need any part #'s let me know.I have pics of this as well.And unless your versed in these trucks you can't tell if this is a factory built or custom
 
#1,130 ·
pro 439,<br />
<br />
Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing thoughts on your build.<br />
<br />
You bring up an excellent point on the clearance issue when installing the Fuller transmission. It depends on what year and model you are installing the transmission into. They vary widely.<br />
<br />
After I installed mine, I felt body vibration after everything had settled the housing and transmission were making contact with the cab. A body lift with 6 each 2" donuts did the trick. Good clearance and engine sits at the original level.<br />
<br />
As for the transmission mount, there are numerous ways to accomplish the installation. Part of it depends on fab skills and equipment available. <br />
<br />
The slave clutch can be mounted left to right. Little more work to get around the exhaust<br />
<br />
The right side starter mount flywheel mount is primarily ag and generator installs. Europe and Asia use the right hand mount. This also involves lengthening the starter electrical harness from left to right on a Cummins conversion.<br />
<br />
Post some Pics when you have time.<br />
<br />
<br />
Paul
 
#1,131 ·
<div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px; ">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px">Quote:</div>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset">

<div>
Originally Posted by <strong>Bigger John</strong>
<a href="showthread.php?p=6622217#post6622217" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="http://image.autoforums.com/cumminsforum/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" /></a>
</div>
<div style="font-style:italic">Fellow gear-heads,<br />
<br />
I have been reading/re-reading this thread for a while now and finally got off my butt and registered. Aside from some of the unrelated drama I've got to say I'm completely impressed by the ingenuity presented by the members here.<br />
<br />
My own situation in a nutshell: having a somewhat neglected '87 D100 shortbed that I transplanted onto a '93 W250 (totaled by a schoolbus) after chopping 34" out of the middle. Got sick of watching the 1st gen roof-rot (should have gotten off my lazy butt and re-painted it 10 years ago when I built it). Found a cheap '85 1-ton w/4-spd manual (360 gasser) and going to do re-cab #2 and leave my slush-box behind.<br />
<br />
Craigslist revealed an FS-5406A that I scooped up with a good clutch, flywheel and pressure plate. Spent waayy too much time on the internet finding the elusive #2 flywheel housing w/drv side starter location. (Thought about going to the pass side option but didn't like the idea of the down pipe cooking the starter all the time.) The '85 cab has mechanical clutch linkage and I'm thinking about just going that route. The trans did have a slave cyl. bracket but it sticks up a bit and I'm trying to "keep a low profile" under the tunnel. <br />
<br />
Although the flywheel housing has mounting bosses for rear engine support, it seems to me like that leaves an awful lotta weight cantilevered off the rear. My tranny came with a drum parking brake so it has the flanged rear bearing housing and I'm considering fabricating a crossmember that bolts up to that (with a rubber trans mount, of course).<br />
<br />
Looking forward to purchasing the gears for the FSO conversion, and being a (former?) truck driver, I'm not particularly worried about having 6th toward the dash. (If memory serves, I drove a '75 Pete logging truck that had that pattern, along with a 4 spd. brownie.)<br />
<br />
I guess I'm wondering how many others across the country are doing the Fuller swap at this minute? Seemed like every time I found a flywheel housing and made the call someone else had just bought it. I will post pictures as work proceeds.<br />
<br />
Thanks to all that have provided inspiration!<br />
John</div>

</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div><br />
<br />
Hi John, I'm just about to start a conversion myself too. I've got an 81 dodge crewcab 2wd long box dually that has a 360 stroked to a 410 witha 727 in it currently. Has a Dana 70 with 4.56 rear. This thing raps out hard at 55 with the gas motor in it now, it would barely do 45 with a diesel. It only has 46k on the clock, I got a great score a few months ago! But all that drivetrain is coming out and getting a 98 12v eaton fuller fs6306a and d80 3.54 rear. Should make a nice puller, can't wait to start. I found the trans with everything with it a couple months ago up here by the twin cities for a grand on craigslist. Pretty happy with that too.<br />
Just want to thank all the guys that have done all the research on this transmission swap and taken the time to post all of it to boot! Very well done!! I know for a fact that if I would not have stumbled across this thread, I would be putting in a 5600 and been totally unhappy with that trans by the way it sounds from you guys. Thank you again!! <br />
Scott
 
#1,132 ·
Paul, <br />
Any progress with the transfer case adapter? I'm definitely interested, looking to mate a np205 to my fuller in the coming months. Thanks! <br />
Rick<br />
<br />
<font color="gray">Sent from <a href="http://www.autoguide.com/mobile" target="_blank">AutoGuide.com Free App</a></font>
 
G
#1,136 ·
pro 439,<br />
<br />
Don't be critical of yourself about posting pics. We have all been through the painful process of learning how to post pictures.<br />
<br />
1.0 The pictures have to be posted some where on the web such as website or some photo host like photobucket. My photos are on photobucket;<br />
<br />
<font color="Red">http://s1231.photobucket.com/?postlogin=true</font><br />
<br />
2.0 Once you set up a free account, you need to UPLOAD your photos to the site from your pc.<br />
<br />
3.0 Once the photos are up loaded, select the one you want to post and make sure it is large and the only photo being viewed. On the right side is the side bar that reads, "Links to Share this Photo". Click on "Direct". When you do this, the link will say, "copied".<br />
<br />
4.0 Now go back to Cummins forum and select the box that looks like an envelope. When you put the mouse pointer on it, it will say, "insert image". You will get a message box that has "http://" in it. Erase the http:// and then click on "paste". This will paste the url where your photo <br />
is stored. If you want to post multiple photos, repeat the process. It goes very fast once you get the hang of it.<br />
<br />
5.0 Enjoy your photos on the web<br />
<br />
<br />
Paul
 
#1,137 · (Edited)
Shadow Trooper,<br />
<br />
I guess the best way to put it is that I am still a bachelor after having been to the alter at least 6 times only to have the bride chicken out at the last minute. <br />
<br />
I am still no where with no one committed to fab the parts---I wish I could say exactly how I feel--it's been over a year and zero results.<br />
<br />
Best I can do is back up and re-group.<br />
<br />
Paul
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShadowTrooper
#1,138 ·
<div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px; ">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px">Quote:</div>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset">

<div>
Originally Posted by <strong>chansey</strong>
<a href="showthread.php?p=6668585#post6668585" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="http://image.autoforums.com/cumminsforum/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" /></a>
</div>
<div style="font-style:italic">Shadow Trooper,<br />
<br />
I guess the best way to put it is that I am still a bachelor after having been to the alter at least 6 times on only to have the bride chicken out at the last minute. <br />
<br />
I am still no where with no one committed to fab the parts---I wish I could say exactly how I feel--it's been over a year and zero results.<br />
<br />
Best I can do is back up and re-group.<br />
<br />
Paul</div>

</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>Paul, do you have blueprints of the parts that need to get machined? I may be able to get them made if its within our capability. I would take a look at them for you and we can go from there. I would like to make them for you for nothing because of all the work you have done.<br />
Scott
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShadowTrooper
#1,139 ·
Airbagger,<br />
<br />
I do have AutoCad dwgs V2013 for the Fuller Flange and the 29 tooth T/C spline Shaft. I also have drawings for the clocking ring for a 5 hole late mode TC and the Dodge 6 hole clocking ring<br />
<br />
I made the 2 housings and simply wanted them duplicated. The one that mounts on the Fuller has the bearing retainer built into it. The fuller side is Cast Iron and the TC side is aluminum.<br />
<br />
PM me and I will forward the drawings.<br />
<br />
<br />
Paul
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShadowTrooper
#1,140 ·
Well finally got all parts and installed in truck.fs-5406A converted to OD<br />
1996 12 valve---works great---used the original master and slave.<br />
Want to thank Paul for his help and research.Also have another tranny for sale<br />
just like mine.It is new[never been in a truck] but sitting in the weather the pilot<br />
skaft is rusted,but converted to an overdrive that would not matter.Mine was the same way.Also incorperated the original rubber tranny mount.Could probably figure <br />
out how to send pics in anyone is interested.Again I would like to thank <br />
Paul foor his help and his damn sure dedication.
 
#1,143 ·
<div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px; ">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px">Quote:</div>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset">

<div>
Originally Posted by <strong>Unkle Fuzzy</strong>
<a href="showthread.php?p=6749137#post6749137" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="http://image.autoforums.com/cumminsforum/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" /></a>
</div>
<div style="font-style:italic">*******,<br />
<br />
What sort of outlay did you have to make to do the OD conversion?<br />
<br />
I find lots of non-OD tranny's but no OD's.</div>

</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>It's really easy to do and not terribly expensive, like he said the parts are a little under 500. Spend the extra 2-300 or so and grab a rebuild kit, you might as well since you're taking it apart. <br />
<br />
<font color="gray">Sent from <a href="http://www.autoguide.com/mobile" target="_blank">AutoGuide.com Free App</a></font>
 
#1,145 ·
<blockquote><div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px; ">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px">Quote:</div>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset">

<div>
Originally Posted by <strong>*******</strong>
<a href="showthread.php?p=6749777#post6749777" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="http://image.autoforums.com/cumminsforum/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" /></a>
</div>
<div style="font-style:italic">It was less than $500.00 for the parts to do the conversion</div>

</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div></blockquote>Where did you purchase the gears and input shaft? I've been looking and I'm finding a wide range of cost from different vendors.
 
Top