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NV5600 to FSO6406A 6 speed Fuller

1M views 2K replies 248 participants last post by  gbcummin 
#1 · (Edited)
2001 Dodge 3500, 112,000 mi, 5.9 Cummins, 4X 4, Long Bed with NV5600 6 speed transmission. Just went out again for the 3rd time. Failures were at 82,000, 97,000 and now at 112,000. Had regular dealer service. Use it to haul a 40' gooseneck and a Case 1155E loader tipping the scales at 25,000 lbs.

Parts are really hard to find. Last time I had to buy a core for $500 just to get parts for the rebuild by a heavy truck tranny shop. Problem seems to be in the 5-6 gear section with seized bearings.

Spoke with a rebuild shop in Ohio and they have started drilling lube holes in the case and bearing shell and claim they have not had any failures since they started. Anyone have experience with this procedure???

I am changing the NV5600 out for a Fuller FSO-6406A. It has a 660 HP rating with 6th OD at .78. These ratings are close to that of the NV5600.

This is not new or innovative. The Freightliner FL 70 has used the FS6406 6 speed since '93 and Ford has used Fuller's with Cummins on the F650 and F750 since 2003.

Since Fuller never has had a married transfer case, the transfer case would have to be divorced. Need to find the correct clutch set up that is used with the medium duty truck. Would need a #2 SAE flywheel housing and 1-3/4" clutch.

Parts are readily availabe for Fuller and never have to worry about synthetic oils--should be good for 500k miles or more.

Local trans shop has a NV5600 for $1000. Needs output shaft and bearing. Synchros and all gears look good. Mine will be available as soon as I complete the change-over. I suppose someone will want pictures and part numbers.
 
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#830 ·
Doomed Project

B700,

I'm feeling for you in a very serious way--lost money, time and a dream!

I had never attempted to do what I have before, but I schooled myself, developed a plan and worked the plan. I did every thing myself, it wasn't fast by any means, but none the less it was a successful project.

The whole purpose was to give Dodge owners an option to the NV5600 and NV4500. I still believe that the Fuller is a much better option.

Not everyone can over come a hit like you've taken, let alone have the desire to forge ahead and still want to complete the project,

Good Luck.....Paul
 
#831 · (Edited)
Heads-Up

Hi All,

A couple of good bargains

FSO 6406A in Desmoines, IA $600 888-940-503 Core/gears look good

FSO 6406A in Charolette, NC $1,000 704-516-4867

FS 6406A in Desmoines, IA $1000 800-599-9551 ( has cores $300-$600)

FS 6406A in Denver CO $1200 720-480-6183

When you call these companies, they have several available ----ask, ask about what is available. They ranage from bad synchros to chipped gears

Paul
 
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#832 ·
fs5406a converted to fso6406a

I have 2 of these units in a tranny shop to be converted.They have never been used and the upgrade parts are new also.It is a big truck tranny shop as I did not want to do this job but one time.They will have the 5th and OD gears
reversed on the shift pattern.OD [or 6th gear] will be against the dash.ALL OTHER GEARS WILL BE AS USUAL.Will have SAE# 2 bell and 1 3/4 pilot. I will probably be selling one of these units if anyone is interested.



I would like to thank Mr.CHANSEY [or his dog] for the job he has done,and for all the help he has given everyone[even the NO way mind of some].
He had the talent and know how to do his project without help from anyone but
wanted to share with others.I commend him.


I thank you again MR.chansey
 
#833 ·
What truck shop are the transmissiOns at and could you post a picture of the transmission and the warranty and parts installed in them? Do they have shifters and how much for One? Is the warranty transferable? Thanks
 
#835 ·
i will try to get a few pics. Right now I am forced to go to a mediation meeting and then after more fees we go to court. I was misled by a person who showed incredible knowledge of my goal. He had done some really incredible stuff, but, he had also had some catostrphic failures which should have raised flags in my mind, but I was so intent on the goal that I ignored signs of questionable work.
He has an F350 which he turned into a 4x4. He had installed numerous drive trains in the truck and was heading toward something like I wanted. He presently had a DT466 which he twin turboed. He also put an Allisson AT545 behind it. He had had problems getting a working clutch. The pressure needed to push the pedal was too much to be an easy ride. Well, the twin turbos blew up, about the same time as the Allisson failed. Just bad luck??? My clutch set-up showed him what he was doing wrong. The 2000 F650-750 was available with a hydraulic clutch. The Hydraulics are so smooth and easy that you don't even realize that you have a much heavier drivetrain in your pickup. The hydraulics work with both the Fuller FSO 6 speed and the Spicer ESO66-7B (7speed with Overdrive of .74).
He over tightened the pre-load on the Fuller after he put in the 4 gears to change it to an overdrive. This piece of negligence caused the bearings to seize, because they could not be lubricated. Not only did the bearings seize, but lots of other parts have been damaged or destroyed (synchronizers? ).
The $7,000-- 5.9 Cummins- $1,500, FS6406A-$950. + $400.(Shipping), 4 Overdrive gears- $500. + $75. , Clutch-$450. , Head Bolts and Gasket-$600. , Driveshaft $150. , Hydraulics for clutch - $500. and other small stuff plus his labour. $1400. + $750, + $60.+ $120. and other small charges along the way. When the truck was picked up it was short the transmission tailstock, Gear shift lever and housing -$$200., Hyraulics for clutch and numerous parts which will be determined once we get into this. He did nothing with the driveshaft, never changed the shift pattern in the tranny, ripped off the housing supporting the headlights (fibreglass- $185. + paint) Bent the rad supports and took the motor mounts that he made back off the truck. The engine is sitting on the crossmember. A mechanic is going to cost at least $2,000, motor mounts and modifications around $500. and another transmission between $2,000 and $2700. ++++. The original engine was out of a Ford B700-800 school bus. It cost over $300. in parts just to modify it to fit under the hood of my F250. I am starting over with a 92 Dodge Cummins. hope this gives you an idea of my grief.
 
#837 ·
So youre suing him for all the parts that went in the truck, plus labor and other damaged parts, claimed to be from him? I will say there are 2 sides to a story, but this certainly sounds pretty bad. I dont envy you at all.
 
#836 ·
further... Somebody tells you, that they got your engine running and left it for an hour to warm up. When they came back they found antifreeze and oil all over the place. any thoughts on why it is leaking and what may have happened to the Cummins while it was left to warm up?
 
#838 ·
Feel sorry for you since you were determined to get a fx0 6 speed in your truck, but to be honest with no plan from the orginal poster of this thread about how to id the transmissions from one another and what exact list is needed for each one, what procedure in a step to step picture follow along dissamble to reassemble and techincal clearances you took a truck to a tranny rebuilder virgin and expected him to make a silk purse out of a boars ear against good judgement. The orginal poster never solved the problem of the fxo crossember source, he just getto fabbed up some angle iron and is still driving the truck with no 4x4 hooked up 4 years later. Hs has never installed to my knowledge from this thread a single gear or a tool to convert a direct drive trans to a od and how he did it with picts and specs and tools required etc. This is why this conversion remains a pig in a poke gamble. Any professional class 8 truck professional rebuilder with not touch it with out contol of the core and sourcing all of the parts he has to install and professional tools not available to swapers.

For all you know the transmission you bought could have had a broken or bent shaft when u brought in it to be converted by a tranny virgen. Jinkyard rats will tell you what you want to hear about the tranny they have to sell, When there is a problem they are long gone with the money. Pro trans class rebuilders with a inspection and proper tools and experiece get $3500 to $5000 with a written guarantee for a reason. Now the used non inspected trans you brought in prob has streessed main shaft, burnt groves scoring and seized new gears and still nobody competent to tell u what it actaully needs, it ran a hour locked up, no wonder the tail shaft is off, he prob pulled it off to try to unlock it somehow. LIke the other trans in this thread, if not inspected by a 3nrd party u better off getting a rebuilt g5600 and readily avaialble parts including the crossmember, forget this doomed swap that has become swap quicksand for you and others who were led down the empty sack of adapters, how to articles and parts lists and non experienced class 8 truck transmission rebuilders. Good luck hope you can work out some kind of settlement but dont hope for the moon.
 
#839 ·
More Whining from W500

Geeez,

Anyone have a boat anchor and chain so we can take W500 for a walk off the end of a pier. NO- No -No--he'll only go along if you provide him pictures of the pier, approved plans and a materials list. You'll have to bring your own tools too, because he doesn't have any and wouldn't know how to use them. Then too, he'll probably complain about the purity of the water, PH, temperature and probably the depth as well.

Forget instructions because he is unable to read, or if he can, it is limited because he is unable to grasp simple concepts, remember that the question has been asked and answered numerous times.

Let's see how we can assist a CUMMINS FORUM hanger-on who has the following traits:

No mechanical skills or aptitude
Difficulty understanding simple concepts
Wants a picture of everything even is the picture doesn't show anything
Helpless, he wants you to do everything for him
Insecure to the max degree
No faith or trust in himself or anyone else
Risk management to him means do nothing--have everyone else do it

If the the ideas and concepts of this forum are too advanced for you W500,
just go away and cry to someone else, just don't do it here.

Paul
 
#840 ·
I've been following this excellent thread from the beginning.

While it's easy to pile on W500Cummings, I'll try to give him the benefit of the doubt. His writing style is very frustrating but I'm sure he's a good guy. :beer

I suspect he just doesn't have the creativity or mechanical skills to attempt this transmission swap even though he wants to.

We all would love a complete kit with step by step instructions for this swap, for all swaps, for all modifications. But life is not like that.

My advice to W500Cummings is to read more, post less. :thumbsup:
 
#841 ·
Please Mr 500 leave us alone. You have obviously not read through this thread. The answers that you want are here. The original poster does have a married transfer case, and he did work out the bolt up issue. What he is now doing is duplicating it in an easier fashion. He has more than 1 truck. The 1st is completed and he is using that as a pattern to do more.
Your commentary is negative. You are all negative.. you think of nothing but negative thoughts. You may have already tried this project and screwed it up worse than the guy who did mine. You likely have your truck sitting in a shed with parts all over the place and are taking your frustration out on this forum. you think like a loser, write like a loser and are a loser.
My transmission crashed because the nut was over tightened, allowing the bearings to seize after not being able to be lubricated.
 
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#842 ·
He does not mean any harm he's just stupid.
I am talking about Wimp#1 and the other 499 Wimps in his club.At least
the other 499 wimps are smart enough not to post.I guess he is not their leader,or
the leader of anything.The only useful purpose he could serve in life would be as a
bad example.
 
#844 ·
****, could you post a inspection from reputable shop of the 2 transmissions along with pictures of them with actual tag photos and model numbers you are pimping for sale, why have you not converted them to od with a married adapter for 4x4 apps so you could show us your expertise on the fxo and transmission converting?? Maybe you could take one over to the above poster and finally do a step by step picture tear down and install and install into a 4x4 truck. Like i said guys dont drink the fxo conversion coolaid from this example of shoot the messanger of the bad news, its a quicksand swap that is almost 5 years old still not working and still people are following it and losing $1000s of bucks.
 
#843 ·
Hi everyone!

I have allmost completed my fuller swap(had automatic before). Only some small things to do. I put a TO-905 to my truck and and married tc to it. If some one else want's to put twin countershaft tranny i recommend to put at least 3" body lift (like i have)
to have enough space for the tranny. Still i cutted the floor a bit to have more space for the tranny. Clutch i have is 14" double disc for 2" input shaft. Clutch hudraulics i took from Finnish truck called Sisu that had 10 speed fuller. And yes i'm from Finland, becouse of this it has been pretty hard to find proper parts for my swap. But i think my monster will come alive in few weeks. Only thing needs to be done is propeller shafts. One piece shaft for rear end and two piece shaft for front end. This kind of swap is really easy, only thing that left for machinist was the axle between fuller and tc. Here is some pics i have taken along the way
rami rojektia | Ilmainen online-valokuva-albumisi AlbumIni.fi-palvelussa!

Sorry if my english is not so good, but i hope everyone understands :D
 
#845 ·
Well I for one can say I'm not a professional rebuilder by any stretch of the imagination.. But I rebuilt mine and have had at least 12000 miles on it so far.. All it takes is reading and following directions.. I set my preload correctly, it ain't hard. As far as a married tc, big whoop. I'd rather have a divorced 205 with the Fuller than a married nv4500/205.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
 
#847 ·
I am as happy as a lark with my 2WD truck.If I had a 4WD truck I would go with an automatic.They are very deperdable if you treat them right.Dodge automatics do not
pressure up in PARK.You must start the engine,put the shift lever in neutral for about 20 seconds,then shift into drive.If you go straight from park to drive it will ruin you tranny.Dodge should tell you this but they do not.When you start into a mud hole with a fuller it better be in the right gear from the gitgo because it will be difficult to shift with load
of the mud.I have made a living driving big rigs as an owner operator sinse 1966.Was going to rebuild the automatic that got 400,000 mile on it until I saw MR Chanseys post,then decided to go with fuller to get lower gears.Bought an auxilliary trans to put behind the auto
for $1000 but don't need it with the fuller as the fuller has lower gears already
 
#849 ·
Different Tranny Solution

kytis,

Don't worry about your English--it's fine.

Your are providing solutions to the problem NV4500 & NV5600 transmissions.

I thought about using a yoke similar to the one you used and decided to go with a round symmetrical coupler.

Where did you locate the stub companion flange that mates with the transfer case?? Are you using a round tube with flanges on both ends to enclose the coupling shaft??

Keep up the good work.

paul
 
#850 · (Edited)
Paul

I used output yoke that came with the tranny. Other half of my adapter is part of 47re output shaft and machined round piece around it. Hole in the round piece is 0.2mm smaller than the output shafts outside diameter. Parts are put together with heat expansion and welded on the inside just in case. Then the output yoke of the fuller had to machine to match with the other half. Pieces have sort of a claw fitting so the torq of the engine is not just hanging on the bolt that holds pieces together. This was pretty easy solution that didn't cots alot.

Every flanges that i have are custom made and cut with laser from 10mm steel plate. Yes there is round tube between fuller and tc. I don't know the word for the piece that is welded to the tc flange but found it from plumbing store. I take more photos next week from the pipe between tranny and tc.
 
#851 ·
Transmission Adapter

Kytis,

The Cummins engine is widely used in Europe with a host of transmission options not available in the USA. Did you look any any of the other transmissions as an option?

Your T/C drive stub flange was put together in the same manner as mine was built. I redesigned this part because of the multiple steps required and ease of production.

I just acquired AutoCAD Inventor which will allow me to produce a scaled 3D scaled dimensions that can be down loaded to an electronic mold machine to produce a casting. The final product has to be affordable.

Because the NP series T/C's do not have a symmetrical bolt pattern, different molds would be required for the different truck manufacturers. The alternative is to spend more $$$$$$$ on an adapter ring.

Just glad to see you improvising and thinking your way through issues and problems.


Paul
 
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#852 ·
wait a minute.

Mr. W500 Cummings, can't even spell CUMMINS right. No one here is obligated to provide you a step by step how to manual complete with part numbers and pictures, nobody so get over it. There is more than enough info in this thread if you would bother to read (here's the hard part) and comprehend the info available. There are tranny numbers, parts lists and even links to transmissions for sale in this thread.

This is a job for a mechanically inclined, fabrication capable individual with a pretty well set up workshop, I presume you are none of the above. You obviously have neither the skills, tools or inclination to even start a project like this, let alone see it through to completion. Implying that people are liars because they won't post pictures at your whim, only brings your character and honor into question not theirs. Please stop wasting space and go away.

I reccomend this user for moderation, please?!?!
 
#856 ·
Guys, DROP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS now.......


get back to the tech talk, discuss your differences in a civil manner, and enjoy the thread....if not dont post in the thread. If you choose to continue with personal jabs i can press a few buttons and give you a little free time to cool off :thumbsup:
 
#857 ·
http://www.albumini.fi/index.php?m=fto&a=73&id=305365310&key=FQWPOLWB

Here is my tc married to fuller TO-905.

Paul

I did check other options for tranny swap, but this tranny serves best in my truck and my use. It's probably not easiest tranny to shift or even put it in a dodge, but i'm that kind of guy who bangs head to the wall until the wall breaks :)

And what comes to the difficultynes of this kind of swap. I would say it's rather easy, becouse only parts that you can't get from ebay or truck parts store are pieces between tranny and tc. And those parts are pretty easy to fabricate if you have a friend in metal fabrication shop (like i have) or let some shop to plan the pieces and make the parts. Other option is to use divorced tc wich is lot easier to do.
 
#858 ·
These are the only two pictures I took when I took apart my trans for the OD conversion. I was too busy to take more. But- proof that I've taken an FSO apart. Enjoy.

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