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Go Back   Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum > 2nd Gen. Dodge Cummins 98.5-02 24V Forums > 98.5-02 Powertrain
98.5-02 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect..NO ADVERTISING .

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Old 03-05-2011, 11:18 PM   #289 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NC4WD View Post
We really need a specific parts breakdown.
to convert a fs 6406a into a fso6406a the parts needed are
4304540 Input shaft with 25mm pilot
4304541 Countershaft drive gear
4304542 Countershaft O/D Gear
4304543 Mainshaft O/D Gear
while your in there a k-3423 basic kit will ensure you wont be back in there anytime soon. Stay away from the X206 transmissions as they might not be easily converted to overdrive
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:45 PM   #290 (permalink)
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Going with a devoiced unit like the 205 would be the easiest.
Yeah but then you have to mess with the extra length plus shifter and all... Umm I donno, it'd be pretty neat when done though...
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:35 AM   #291 (permalink)
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I just turned an FS into an FSO its pretty sraight forward, get an input shaft, countershaft drive gear, and O/D gears for main shaft and counter shaft. You will need a press for the countershaft gears. The best prices for parts I found Was Global Drive Train supply.
iT IS GOING TO BE A MATTER OF COST You have to have a very reasonably priced FS6406A 1st , and not just some core, because you are still using a lot of what is in that transmission, then you need the gears and then, in my case, a mechanic to put this together. For me the cost will come out about the same.
It would be nice to see the parts sheet and cost so a call can be made on how to go. Somebody could make money putting out a conversion FS- to FSO kit... and also just finding the transmissions and selling the completed FSO. It has to be an FS6406A to start with.
Fuller changed some of the technology from the FS6306A. They were re-engineered with heavier synchronizers and other stuff which among other benefits was a significant less shifting effort. Guys might not mind shifting a heavier transmission, but the wife or girlfriend, even though they may prefer shifting gears may balk after fighting the synchros or grinding gears when they fail, in an older series FS Fuller 6 transmission especially if they are driving the truck and pulling a loaded horse trailer or 5th wheel and end up doing a lot of downshifting for hills and traffic. The FSO or FS6406A are the newest version and have been out about 10yrs, if that. Earlier FS6's did have some issues with synchro failure and could be tougher on the arm if you had to do a lot of down shifting.
My truck is a daily driver and I want it as easy as possible for the lady to drive. I am using the entire Ford hydraulic system out of an F650 that was bolted on to a Fuller. I had a really bad experience years ago, where the pedal effort was so hard that I had a block of wood on the pedal to give me enough leverage to floor the clutch. I am being told now that the linkage was just a little bit out of line, but it only takes a very small fraction of an inch to screw it all up. It may look perfect... But..... The other bonus is the hydraulics do the adjusting, no getting soaked sliding underneath adjusting the pedal linkage.
Looking forward to see the cost breakdown on the conversion parts. Reasonably price FSO's are rare and there are lots of FS6406A's out there.
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:44 AM   #292 (permalink)
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I wanna see somebody marry one to a T-case too. But here are some of the problems and please correct me if I have something wrong. From what I understand the bearing retainer at the rear of the Fso must be removed and we have seen pics of the adapter Chansey used for mock up. It is basically a four bolt flange bearing retainer to bearing retainer.
http://www.sanco-bg.com/NV5600%20Ful...pter_small.JPG
But I thought that the torque of tightening the yoke to the rear of the axle preloads the mainshaft. Remember that in most axle and trans yoke installs the retaining nut must be tightened to a torque spec. However the bearing retainer may preload or hold the mainshaft in. If the above adapter was used u could use a slip spline shaft in a married application, but that is only if the bearing retainer manages the shaft preload. The slip spline would basically be a solid rod shaft that will slip over the Fullers output splines and also over the T-case input splines. Imagine removing it though if you have an issue. I believe in earlier posts somebody linked to a website that made gizmos like this. I'm gonna have to start from the beginning of this thread once again!!! I'm not saying it can't be done, but its starting to look like a bad idea from a cost and ease of repair standpoint. There may be a solution for the NV to Fuller in the Dodges but I am doing a complete fab of a truck so a divorced unit seems easier.

Another problem is that Eaton/Fuller Roadranger has flanges and yokes but none that are small enough. Chansey did make a driveshaft from a 1710 yoke to a 1450 or 1550 I think its in this thread from awhile back. But there is another solution. This is the link to the yoke reference chart.
http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups...ip-0916-36.pdf

The solution is to have the company from the link below, custom make flanges that are all 1550 for the 38spline on the rear of my FSO, the 3 flanges on the NP205 and my front Dana 60 and Rear Sterling 10.5. It may be more costly but all the U-joints would be the same

Custom Flanges

I'm gonna price the flanges, U-joints and driveshafts to see what the strongest, easiest and cheapest combo is. There may be other shops to do custom flanges too.

Edit:Around page 11 of the thread is where some good info on the bearing retainer and yokes reside. May not have to make custom flanges per say but time is money and you may be looking for a while for a 1550 flange to fit on a NP205 or any other T-case. I PM'd Chansey and he said he's been busy and can't work on the conversion for a while. It sounds like a bunch of us are getting Fullers at the same time so I hope some of us can get our conversions well documented and posted on this thread or possibly linked so we have more to go on. We have a good starting point with the thread and Chanseys home page so somebody needs to finish the MARRIAGE TO THE T-CASE part on here.
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Last edited by VonWilliam; 03-06-2011 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Thread info
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:12 AM   #293 (permalink)
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T-Case adapter

Hi All,

Glad to see that a few of you are willing to carry the ball for a while. Been having some med issues and trying to heal up to get back in the shop. Still have a few more rounds to go. Injuries from Viet Nam are starting to take their toll on an aging body.

The comments posted about the Fuller bearing retainer and the 38 tooth yoke are correct. In fact, the bearing retainer must be shimmed in order to set the proper preload on the bearing. The yoke is a straight forward torque issue.

T-case Adapter
I have mulled over various ways to accomplish this. The easiest and best way would be to make a bearing retainer with a flat area to bolt to the existing bearing mount with a larger outer ring that is drilled to mate to the GM or Dodge transfer case adapter housing. The bearing retainer is a straight cut to accept the bearing race. The GM adapter is clocked slightly differently than the Dodge adapter. The 38 tooth yoke could be machined down and drilled for a four bolt pattern with a pilot to receive the mating shaft. The mating shaft could be made in two pieces.
1) Machine a round metal piece with pilot to make with the portion mating to the yoke.
2) Use the NV5600 shaft stub and machine it round to .XXXX dim
3) Machine apilot (F orM) to mate with the yoke. Bore the fab'd round piece for a press fit with the NV5600 shaft. Length would have to be predeterined to fit the T-case and fit properly when assembled
4) Weld the round piece to the NV5600 shaft.

Ideally, it would be nice to be able to produce both pieces from blank stock, broach the splines and then machine to fit. This could easily be produced in XXX country for $60.00 or so The bearing retainer adapter about $50. The GM and Dodge T-case adapters are $25.00 or less all day on Ebay. Retail would be about $450.00. McaFab is selling his fo $1,900

The market for a "factory" kit is huge--all class 5-6 trucks have to have divorced T-cases and in some cases, cut & stack the frames. The Fuller trannies are the most simple trannys and in relative terms compared to light duty trannies, BULLET PROOF. With over 56,000 hits on this thread, there is a huge following looking for the final solution.

Perhaps in the near future my cicumstance will get better and can continue the project. Meanwhile, I'm starting the 3rd year with the Fuller and no isuues to date--ever thankful that I ventured into the unknown.

Good luck to all and continue thinking outside the box.

Paul--chansey was my Dalmation and now gone at age 14.
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Last edited by chansey; 03-08-2011 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:37 PM   #294 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chrisbennett View Post
to convert a fs 6406a into a fso6406a the parts needed are
4304540 Input shaft with 25mm pilot
4304541 Countershaft drive gear
4304542 Countershaft O/D Gear
4304543 Mainshaft O/D Gear
while your in there a k-3423 basic kit will ensure you wont be back in there anytime soon. Stay away from the X206 transmissions as they might not be easily converted to overdrive
any guesses on the cost of parts and best place to get them? How much time will it take to convert? If I get a decent FS6406A for $1200. how close will I come to just buying an FSO?
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:13 PM   #295 (permalink)
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any guesses on the cost of parts and best place to get them? How much time will it take to convert? If I get a decent FS6406A for $1200. how close will I come to just buying an FSO?
Yo B700 So I priced it out a while ago through global drivetrain supply I think. If you use some imported parts its about $450!!! The all eaton puts you into $600 and if you buy them from Eaton its over $800. By my est. you need to get a $500-$800 FS unit to make it worth it. I priced FSO 6406 and 8406 and you can get them for the same price essentially. I went for the 8406 cuz if I;m gonna pay $2k for a tranny its gonna be the stoutest one you can get. So I got sick of waiting and paid more than what I wanted. I was watching ebay and craigslist daily for 6 months! Now I still watch it because I have seen a lot of good deals on all kinds of things. Good luck. I hope you make a score like some of these other guys did. Where can I go to see some pics of your project?
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:35 PM   #296 (permalink)
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I dont have an estimate I know the cost. It came out to $450 for the gears and all of eatons parts are impoted anyway, look on the case it says made in brazil. I got a core transmission for $600 with 6hr round trip to pick it up. The bad part was the first/second synchro was bad and that sucker is expensive like $400 expensive. So that put me about $1700 on a rebuilt overdrive 6 speed ready to be installed, and that doesnt include the rebuilding because I did it myself. by the time I got everything I needed I was in it for $3700 but after 3 rebuilt nv 4500s and 5 clutches that I know of for my truck it was definately time to stop throwing money into something that was not going to last.

Its only been a week since I lowered my truck off the jacks and it wont be seeing them for a while.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:41 AM   #297 (permalink)
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any guesses on the cost of parts and best place to get them? How much time will it take to convert? If I get a decent FS6406A for $1200. how close will I come to just buying an FSO?
do I not need the input also?
FUL4304539 INPUT SHAFT FSO6406A/8406A $214.20
FUL4304540 DR GEAR Fuller $195.54
FUL4304541 COUNTERSHAFT Fuller $150.61
FUL4304542 COUNTERSHAFT Fuller $115.27
FUL4304543 OD GEAR M/S Fuller $119.19
are these reasonable or is there better (Anderson's of Washington State)
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:45 AM   #298 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chrisbennett View Post
to convert a fs 6406a into a fso6406a the parts needed are
4304540 Input shaft with 25mm pilot
4304541 Countershaft drive gear
4304542 Countershaft O/D Gear
4304543 Mainshaft O/D Gear
while your in there a k-3423 basic kit will ensure you wont be back in there anytime soon. Stay away from the X206 transmissions as they might not be easily converted to overdrive
FUL4304539 INPUT SHAFT FSO6406A/8406A Fuller 1 $214.20
FUL4304540 DR GEAR Fuller 2 $195.54
FUL4304541 COUNTERSHAFT Fuller 1 $150.61
FUL4304542 COUNTERSHAFT Fuller 1 $115.27
FUL4304543 OD GEAR M/S Fuller 3 $119.19
do i need an input shaft also?
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:15 AM   #299 (permalink)
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FUL4304539 INPUT SHAFT FSO6406A/8406A Fuller 1 $214.20
FUL4304540 DR GEAR Fuller 2 $195.54
FUL4304541 COUNTERSHAFT Fuller 1 $150.61
FUL4304542 COUNTERSHAFT Fuller 1 $115.27
FUL4304543 OD GEAR M/S Fuller 3 $119.19
do i need an input shaft also?
The 4304539 is an input shaft with a 30 mm pilot, the 4304540 is an input shaft with a 25 mm input you only need one, andersons prices are not the cheapest global drivetrains is and they take paypal so i went with them. yes you will need to change the input because the gear tooth count is different between a fs and a fso, the reason is that you have to bring the gear ratios up to match the od otherwise the split from 4th to fifth(direct) would be huge and overdrive wouldnt be so much of an overdrive.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:20 AM   #300 (permalink)
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The 4304539 is an input shaft with a 30 mm pilot, the 4304540 is an input shaft with a 25 mm input you only need one, andersons prices are not the cheapest global drivetrains is and they take paypal so i went with them. yes you will need to change the input because the gear tooth count is different between a fs and a fso, the reason is that you have to bring the gear ratios up to match the od otherwise the split from 4th to fifth(direct) would be huge and overdrive wouldnt be so much of an overdrive.
so the ...40 is an input shut and not a drive gear so what is ....39? GDS in Florida is sending quotes now thank you
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