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Go Back   Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum > 2nd Gen. Dodge Cummins 98.5-02 24V Forums > 98.5-02 Powertrain
98.5-02 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect..NO ADVERTISING .

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Old 01-23-2008, 12:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I have done some research on this transmission. Because I am looking to do a swap myself. At www.roadranger.com they have a list for there trannies and the FS-6406A is only rated at 600 ftlbs of torque. I was told that the med duty trucks have less HP and TORQUE than the 5.9 P/U trucks. Most of there movement is in the gearing turning a physicaly larger ring gear that may be close to a P/U's gear. But like a larger tire rolls easer than a small one. So do you think the rear end needs to be upgreaded as well?
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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my budy just did some work on a large ford water truck with a 5.9 cummins. i know the horse power was less but the torque was higher than i think a regular 24valve. i wouldnt be supprised if it was a fuller. the tranny was huge compared to a 5600 you would think a bigger casing would mean stronger right. and since it has to move that much weight u think it would withstand a lot more than 600 ft/lbs
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Old 01-23-2008, 05:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Torque Comparisson

Most all mid-size trucks with a 5.9 Cummins use the Fuller transmission with a 14" clutch and a 1-3/4" or 2" input shaft. For 2008, 10 trans options are offered. Unlike passenger vehicles, mid-sized trucks are spec'd for the intended purpose and geared accordingly.

Ford for example offers the 5.9 with HP ratings of 185, 215, 230, 245, 260 hp and and torque of 420, 520, 660 lb-ft. Cat motors go all the way to 800 lb-ft torque. The trans ratings correspond to the torque, FS4205A, FS-5205A, FS-5406A, FS-5406 and FS-6406A. The O/D version is FSO-6406A and FSO-8406A. Spicer offers a 7 speed in the ES56-7B and ES066-7B.

I spoke with Scott at New Mexico Gear and Clutch. His only caution was to watch the direct output drive ratio to the rear gearing. For example, if you use a straight 6 speed with 4.10 gears you will be at 2200-2400 RPM and max at 55-58 MPH. The the 6 speed OD (.73 X 4.10=2.993) gives us a effective high speed ratio of 2.993.

For the NV5600
1st - 5.63
2nd - 3.38
3rd - 2.04
4th - 1.39
5th - 1.00
6th - 0.73 w/4.10's, effective ratio is 2.993



The Getrag trans is
1st - 4.23
2nd - 2.53
3rd - 1.67
4th - 1.23
5th - 1.00
6th - 0.79 w/4.10's, effective ratio is 3.239

The Fuller FSO-6406A is
1st - 7.06
2nd - 4.13
3rd - 2.52
4th - 1.59
5th - 1.00
6th - 0.78 w/4.10's, effective ratio is 3.198

With a Fuller set-up, low end pulling (1 & 2) is much better and all 3 transmissions are comparable in 3rd to 6th gears. The lower the effective gear ratio the more top end speed. The NV has a very slight edge.

Scott also stated that he is changing a lot of Dodge rears when bigger tires are used. Just can't get the truck moving with 3.55 or 3.91 gears and 40" inch tires.

All looks promising---
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Last edited by chansey; 07-25-2008 at 06:35 AM. Reason: sp
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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New to the forum...
Hello,
I've just rebuilt my NV5600 (295K) and since have had 3 OD gear failures, last one lasted 2 days and my Ram is now in the shade until I can come up with a OEM parts source Seems parts are now coming from India and are NOT the quality the OEM parts. I welded over the (poorly) welded area of the last one and then heat treated, all a waste of time and money... it lasted 2 days.
Fuller FSO-8406A seems to be the same size as the 6406A and rated higher.
I wonder where to look for one that would fit beind a ISB since I make my living with my Ram and cannot afford to be dealing with inferior parts breaking every other day!
Thanks, pc

Last edited by pocket.change; 02-17-2008 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:08 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Angry NV5600 Replacement Trans

Hi all,

I have left my junk NV5600 laying out in the snow since I pulled it just to keep reminding me that I DO NOT want to re-install it.

Here are some additional facts on the Fuller transmission. If you have a 4.10 diff, you will need an FSO (O/D) unit, else your max speed will be 55 mph. FSO's are not readily available since they are late model, however the non-OD FS-6406A and FS-8406A have been used since the 1990's. The good news is that the internal shafts and gears are the same as the FSO with the exception of the OD gears. You can convert an FS into an FSO. Here is the info for the conversion.

Need to change the following http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups...r_fs-6406a.pdf
Main Shaft
item #8 4301477 5TH GEAR-MAINSHAFT

Counter Shaft
item #6 3315743 DRIVE GEAR-CNTRSHFT
item #7 4301478 5TH GEAR-CNTRSHFT

to

FSO-6406 parts list http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups..._fso-6406a.pdf
Main Shaft
item #8 4304543 OD GEAR-MAINSHAFT

Countershaft
item #6 4304541 DRIVE GEAR-CNTRSHFT
item #7 4304542 OD GEAR-CNTRSHFT

With some luck you should be able to find all of the following:
SAE#2 5.9 Cummins flywheel Cover
Flywheel 14" 5.9 Cummins
Clutch 14" (shaft could be 1-1/2" to 2" depending on trans)
SAE #2 Fuller Bellhousing
FSO-6406A or FSO-8406A 6 speed Fuller (or convert an FS to FSO)

Clutch actuation needs to be worked out--the FS-6406A has available a "push" clutch input shaft similar to that on the NV5600. This is rare as most are "pull" type. Clutch lever rework required.

For those with the married T-case, a divorce is in order unless someone can help locate the adapter being used on the 2008 Excusion where the FSO/married T-case is used. Called Fuller tech support and they say this is a "non-Fuller" item.

Had to set the conversion aside for a while as I've had to install a new track on my Case 1155E and now replacing the DT466 on my loader. Weather isn't much help either.
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Old 02-19-2008, 06:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I am considering a swap to a FSO-6406A. I have a 2001 Ram 3500 NV5600 2wd 3.54 Dana 80. Reverse gear is geared to high when backing our 5th wheel GVW 27000 combination. I slip the clutch too much. I have had trouble trying to find a transmission. They want some kind of application number. I thought of finding a medium duty truck with this engine and transmission to get the application number. You seem to have a handle on this type of swap.
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Old 02-19-2008, 09:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Smile FS & FSO Fuller Application

Thanks, just trying to stay ahead of the failure curve.

If you need application, build data and vehicle manufacturer numbers, go to page 60 at http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/groups..._apmt-0069.pdf.

You will find all the info you'll ever need--nice part is that if the seller doesn't know what he has, it puts you in a bargaining position by knowing exactly what the tranny is hyper:.
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Last edited by chansey; 02-20-2008 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:20 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re-Man FSO-8406A

After calling Fuller, $6,900 will get you a Re-Man FSO-8406A, less freight, unless you can put a "DEAL" together through someone.
Seems the build your own "path" would save a great deal of effort in a several ways.
1st. COST
2nd. Looking to find the used FSO-8406A would not be easy since they are scarse (as in new).
3rd. Finding and converting 6 spd to the 6 spd OD because of availabity simply
makes things easier & the scrap yards HAVE them.
ALSO.. the difference beween the 6406/8406 is the (better) heat treat.

Would the Spicer ESO 667B be a better option?

Last edited by pocket.change; 02-20-2008 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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FS-8406 Score

thumbsup:thumbsup

Sorry ya all missed out on the great Ebay deal on an FO-8406---$152.50.

It was improperly listed and read "EATON F-8406N-AW3 TRANSMISSION GEAR REDUCER"

Looks like things just got really cheap on the conversion. Freight is going to be $178.00 so my total cost so far is

Flywheel Cover $75.00
FS-8406 Trans $330.50
FSO OD Gears $150.00 estimated
Flywheel & Clutch $550.00 estimated
#2 Fuller Bellhousing$200.00 estimated
MT 28 starter $000.00 have one
Driveline Rework $75.00 Balance only
$1,380.50 Estimated Cost

If you need to source some tranny's go to HeavyTruckParts.Net - Search for Parts

Arrow Truck Parts in CA has all of the parts less trans for $1,000 and it's off a truck with only 500 miles.

Guess how I feel???
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Last edited by chansey; 12-15-2008 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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REMan,

I passed up on the ESO's because of the input from several tranny shops--their advice was "stay away if you can". I agree with you on looking at options. There may be other possible direct to OD conversions out there.

The FSO-8406A makes the conversion bullet proof. Most go 500,000 before they need work and if you change out the pilot, input shaft and bearing, you could go 1,000,000.

If I get only 500,000 from my used Fuller, my cost will be $0.000661 per mile. With my NV5600 so far, the cost has been $0.060714286 which includes the dead trans in the snow, and if I replaced it again, the cost would be $0.091964286.
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:16 AM   #23 (permalink)
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More Transmission Options

Hi All.

From the number of views on this thread, there seems to be a lot of interest on the use of a Fuller transmission with our Cummins 5.9.

Here's some more good news----the early 90's FS-6306A can also be converted into and FSO with the same parts as noted earlier. Go to http://www.euroricambi.com/cataloghi...ES/414-423.pdf for parts and illustration. These are very plentiful and cheap. Gears very seldom get torn up. Usually requires input shaft, trans beaings and input flywheel pilot, then you're good to go for another 250,000 miles. Any sucess stores out there that a NV5600 made it that far? Ok, maybe 1 but not 2 !!!!!

I am almost done with my prep for my DT466 to install in a 3 yd wheel loader and I can get back to the conversion. I am now waiting for my $152.50 FS-8406A from Ebay to arrive. Should here by March 7 or 8th. It has a 2" input shaft and will have to be replaced in order to use a "push" type clutch. Is it fair to get such a deal and have to pay $178.00 in freight to get it home??

Anyone out there contemplating this conversion???????
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:24 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Transmission Sources

Oooop's

Wanted to give the link for the nationwide ITPA Directory for trasmissions and truck parts--excellent resource DIRECTORY International Truck Parts Association
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