Cummins Diesel Forum banner

1999 ST With No security CTM ISSUE

11K views 28 replies 4 participants last post by  jlbayes 
#1 ·
#2 ·
I originally had the truck up and running after the cab swap everything was good
ok so does this mean you drove the truck, or you let it idle for a couple minutes?
iam only asking cause some will just fire it up let it run for a second or two then call it good.

im not 100% sure on what you have tried so im gonna give you this.

you have to get the VIN programmed if you put a different PCM in. i know its from the same truck both the ECM/PCM but that means if i want to sell a truck with lower mileage i could go to a junkyard or somewhere grab a ECM and PCM or just a PCM with lower mileage and a different vin. unfortunately i dont think the engineers at dodge are that stupid. your other modules im sure would have your vin programmed into them and other security measures. you have to take it down to a dealer or find a shop that will program it. I would at least start there.

or maybe try a PCM rebuilder online and see if you can send in your pcm to have programmed to your vin and mileage. if you dont want the truck towed down.

one thing to remember 2001+ CTM modules and instrument clusters are different then previous years.

i know you didnt say you swapped any of those years CTM modules but just as a reference.
it may be possible they have the same sticker part number and be different.

2001+ instrument cluster modules have your can bus bias resistors and can network terminating resistors.
any other previous years puts all the resistors in your CTM module.
 
#3 ·
A pcm CANNOT be reprogrammed on these. It has to be wiped. They are locked once they are flashed, no going back.

CTM, he needs to determine if the ctm is a base or highline. Which he already has, low line.

And again on the ctm for these trucks, THEY ARE A SLAVE.

The two wires of the twisted pair that make up the CCD multiplex system are called “bus +” (bus
plus) and “bus -” (bus minus) respectively. Each wire has a measurable voltage level of roughly
2.5 volts. In order to maintain the 2.5 volts on each line and provide a means of transportation for
the coded messages, there is a voltage divider network located in the module that supplies bus bias
or voltage. Along with the module that supplies bias, some modules provide termination. Bias is
the voltage necessary to make the bus operational. At least one point of termination is necessary,
some systems use more than one. Some modules are capable of biasing and terminating the bus
by themselves. Termination in the circuitry (a 120 ohm resistor placed across the bus) is required
to complete the voltage divider network circuit and also provide some electromagnetic protection
for the bus. Without termination, voltage on the bus goes to approximately 5 volts on one wire and
0 volts on the other wire. In the 1998 Ram Truck, the instrument cluster supplies bus bias and
termination and the PCM supplies an additional point of termination.
 
#4 ·
:hehe: your right again i feel like a idiot, i thought it was 2001+ up was only MIC
that ccd network diagram has the BCM as the bias and termination for some reason thats ingrained into my head.

i found this TSB sounds identical to your problem.



Technical Service Bulletin: 1998-2001 5.9L Cummins No Start

Reference Number(s): 08-24-00, Date of Issue: September 8, 2000
DESCRIPTION

ENGINE CRANKS BUT DOES NOT START OR STARTS AND STALLS

Model(s):
1998-2001 Dodge (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
1997-2000 Dodge (AN) Dakota
1998-2001 Dodge (BR/BE) Ram Truck
1998-2000 Dodge (DN) Durango
Group: Electrical

Bulletin No.: 08-24-00

Date: September 8, 2000

NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a Vehicle Theft Alarm (VTA) system (sales code LSA).
DISCUSSION

Part of “No Start” diagnosis on vehicles equipped with VTSS should include a verification check of the power supply to the Central Timer Module (CTM). The CTM provides the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) with an “OK To Start” message via the CCD bus. If the message is not received by the PCM, the PCM will not allow the engine to start. Initially, the engine may start and stall but will eventually not start at all. Most CTMs are supplied battery voltage through the power door lock fuse. An inspection of the fuse should be one of the initial diagnostic checks performed. If the fuse is operational, a verification check of the communication system from the CTM can be performed using the DRB III. Attempt to communicate to the CTM. If the CTM does not respond to the DRB III, the DRB III will identify a “No Response From Central Timer Module” message. A “No Response From Central Timer Module” message may indicate that the CTM is not powered up. Please refer to the “Communication” section of the appropriate Body Diagnostic Procedures Manual to assist in “No Start” diagnosis due to communication problems from the CTM. In addition, the “Vehicle Theft/Security” section will aid in the diagnosis of “No Start” issues involving the VTSS system.
 
#5 ·
ArNy32 and Jlbayes
To answer your questions . My truck is a 1999 2500 4x4 with no security . We have been experiencing no start issues for awhile . I did a cab swap over the winter . used my original wiring under the hood and rear harness . We used a 98 dash wiring and dash . During the work on the truck it was ruining with no issues . We discovered during the completion of the assembly that the headlight switch is different in 98.5 and 99 .We had no headlights because 99 has a relay in the switch . So we changed out the 98.5 and installed the original 99 dash that goes with the original truck . during this process we installed the 98.5 dash into the 99 harness in the dash . THE DASH WENT HAYWIRY FLASHING AND THE HARNESS DUAL RELAYS ON THE DRIVERS FENDER UNDER THE BATTERY were going on an off . We pulled the dash and replaced it with the original dash . all seemed to be good we also changed the relays as well .
Next we went to start the truck . It started and stalled after 3 to 4 seconds . and would not restart !
We then check the pump . and wiring all seems good 1 Still no start. So we hot wired the pump . (Positive to the pump from the battery with a fusible link ) iT RUNS!

So after many forum updates and talking I found a Donor truck the same as mine .same truck same tranny same year same part #s .

Installed the ecm first to try it . No start !
So we swapped out the ptm . it stalled right away and stalled . It did this about 4 to 5 times . during one of the starts I tried to increase the pedal to see if the rpms going up would help . They increased but died .

No we have a complete no start . The guys a the dealer are telling me its plug and play.

So that is why I am asking about the ctm . So now that you know the story I am looking for a solution. .
 
#7 ·
Thanks for getting back to me .
I have inquired about the other ctm . He is on the west coast . so I have to wait .
As for the light If im not mistaking it lights up but I can do a dash check again to see.
I was having wiper issues before . and maybe it fried when we had the wrong dash in when everything . it really sounds like this ctm thing. But its like a littte F****n Gremlin is in there !
Please keep any input coming
 
#9 ·
I have the one on the 98.5 but it is different . it was from a "Slt" it never gave me any issue while it was in the truck .(keeping in mind the truck was idle for a couple of months before we tried to start it)
It is when we swapped the 99 back in that the issue started . I have reached out to the guy I purchased the ecm and ptm from to see if he has it. so all of that will be exact . I cant think of anything else.
 
#10 ·
So I have done some research . I contacted the guy who sold me the donor ECM and PTM . the donor vehicle has a highline CTM . from and SLT . Mine is a Lowline ST. Question I have because the High line Ctm would this cause the Ptm To look for security clearance to start ? And would this cause the Ptm to start and stall and then eventually shut off ?
 
#15 ·
99 ECMs are plug and play interchangeable and should be same part number. PCMs may be the same part number I believe need to be programed but to match vin. Various models and even trucks with in the same model can have certain things programed differently. That may be your problem. Also what was your original problem? Have you checked for a bad Crank position sensor?
 
#16 ·
No I have not changed the Crank sensor . But as a process of elimination I am going to change it. Just as a reminder that the ECM and PTM are from the same truck donor truck .Same year same tranny same engine only difference is that the CTM from the donor truck is a highline and mine is a low line. so I never got it because my truck does not have the harness for it.
As to your question the problem is that when I switched over the ecm from the donor truck and left my original ptm in it and it would not start . When I added the donor Ptm to the donor ecm It started and stalled about 4 to 5 times . Now I have a no start issue .
 
#17 ·
Your 341 code said something was wrong with your CAM sensor. Did you do anything about that? What does the tach do when cranking over, sit still, run at 200 or jump around.
 
#20 ·
If the tack does not move, drops when dying or not starting is 99% the indicator for a bad Crankshaft position sensor. While lots things can cause no or hard stars with stumbling dying or no start, the erratic tach is usually only related to the Crankshaft position sensor.
 
#25 ·
Seeing as how nothing you have done has helped, put everything back to original except the Crank sensor or other new non computer parts.
Check the following:
LOAD test the batteries and charge or replace as needed.
Check fuel pressure with key starter bump.
Check for fuel spray at injector fitting while cranking.
Pull codes with a good scanner, not a key trick or programmer. Are you sure the 341 is not accurate?
Do Bluechip Diesel VP diagnostics if you do not find a problem above.
 
#26 ·
I have already done the blue chip diagnoses . the pump runs when hotwired .As for the 341 code we were using a 2001 ecm when we tried the first ecm swap . This gave us a 341 code and we changed the cam sensor to eliminate the code only to find out the ecm was the wrong one, Then we changed the ecm and ptm to a 99 model

This is an ecm pcm communication issue .
What I have here is the ecm , pcm ,ctm , have caused a lock out . I am hoping that someone can be confirm that what I have happening is a problem that can be rectified by the dealer .Or can been done without the dealer .So far I have yet to confirm or prove that the problem is an issue that will happen to the ecm pcm ctm and that there is a resolution.

A lot of good hearted people have reached out to try and help . And I am very appreciative of their help and support. I have changed everything on this truck and still have a no start issue.

If there is anyone that can confirm that the issue can be rectified by bringing to the dealer ? or if you have any questions that seem to be unknown please let me know .
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top