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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Cylinder Head

Ok so Im in a bit of a predicament. I got the head off of my truck after noticing some oil seepage from the front of the gasket. Its had around 45psi of boost going into it for a while on the stock turbo and now with the turbo in my sig so the head gasket was about to fail with the stock head bolts. Ive got the head off now and it will be going back in with studs. Im looking at 625 studs because of the extra clamping force and they are reusable. My question is if I put twins on this truck with the 625 head suds will the gasket last without popping. I will be using a good quality gasket so that should help a little or would I need to still o ring the head? If I do twins itll most likely have a 75 under it and Im guessing it would be around 70ish psi of boost. Just looking for insight on whether or not I should do o rings.


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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 09:06 PM
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1. You don't need 625s for a street truck. ARP 2000s (425s) work fine for 99% of us, at a 1/3 of the cost. A genuine cummins gasket and a good truly flat head is the key to success here.

2. ARP 2000s are reusable as well.

3. If you want to spend the money on orings, be my guest. I did, but I had money to burn and wanted the added insurance and just to say it had orings. I could have gotten along just fine without them. Your call, but a flat head, a cummins gasket, and 2000s will hold what you're wanting to do no problem.




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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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I dropped the head off at the machine shop this afternoon for it to be surfaced and gone through. I had been told by another really well known forum member a while ago (hes known for his turbos) that I would need arp2000s and o rings in order to hold the boost twins would be pushing. My line of thought was if I just did 625s which have higher torque would that make any difference? thanks for the info Im just trying to gather some insight from guys like yourself that have done this before.

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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 09:18 PM
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There are Tons of guys making a lot of power with nothing more that a set of 425s holding the head down.
@jlbayes is in the 90-100psi area with a stock head and studs, for instance.

A stock turbo over a 475 on a VP truck definitely doesn't warrant 625s, you won't be at a power level with a VP44 where cylinder pressure will be high enough to need Orings AND 625s.

If you want orings, go for it. If it's not in the budget, it's not going to break you, I promise. But, the money you'd save from not wasting it on 625s could pay for orings, or a decent port and polish with a valve job, or maybe all three, depending on the shop's rates. Now THAT, would be money well spent.


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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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I appreciate the valuable insight. The setup on the truck now will probably remain this way for a while I just didnt want to be risking popping the head again with twins. While im at it what would be your recommendation on valve springs and push rods?

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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 09:37 PM
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Just some basic 110# springs, stock keepers and retainers, and stock push tubes will be fine.
Springs are more for keeping the added pressure from holding the valve open in your application, you're not going to have the big RPM concerns like a P7100 truck will. Unless you intend to do a conversion later, then I'd go with Manton pushrods, dang good quality for a great price.

Who's valve springs?? that's on you, if you want to save a little money.... https://m.summitracing.com/parts/cro-68190-24 these work fine.




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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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I knew all of that so I figured id just do the studs on the head for now and wait on the springs and push rods I dont think im pushing them past their limit yet. Which was kinda my question Ive got the turbo tuned at 45psi in 5th gear havent tried 6th yet because they are known to be weaker. Just wanted to check and make sure im fine of valve springs with that level of boost.
I have seen the ones on summit. Its something that the same spring costs substantially less like that. I figured I could easily install those with the head on I don't have any apprehensions about doing it.

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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 12:28 AM
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Studs and a good oem Cummins headgasket. If installed and run properly it will handle 70 PSI just fine.

We tend to see stuff go sideways when guys get in the truck, start it up and reef on it without letting anything warm up. Torqing down studs after install is also key.

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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:01 AM
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Yeah you can definitely do it later on, it's simple, just a tedious job.


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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTSCummins View Post
Studs and a good oem Cummins headgasket. If installed and run properly it will handle 70 PSI just fine.

We tend to see stuff go sideways when guys get in the truck, start it up and reef on it without letting anything warm up. Torqing down studs after install is also key.

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A genuine gasket has already been ordered and will be going back on. I plan on using the 425 head studs as well. Ive never been the one to get upset if I mess my truck up either so if something does happen later ill just fix it back. My dad has been a shop owner for over 20 years so Ive got access to almost anything I need to fix it anyways. Plus I can get vendor rates on parts
On another note I talked to the machinist today about the o rings and he said hes only done the fire rings. He has a jig to do the heads on a cnc machine just doesnt have the tooling to do the o rings that are that small. I found a o ring wire kit with a pcv installer on summit racing and their wire was only .041 thick. Pretty thin if you ask me kinda has me wondering if it actually makes any differene at all being that thin.

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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SterlingArcher View Post
There are Tons of guys making a lot of power with nothing more that a set of 425s holding the head down.
@jlbayes is in the 90-100psi area with a stock head and studs, for instance.

A stock turbo over a 475 on a VP truck definitely doesn't warrant 625s, you won't be at a power level with a VP44 where cylinder pressure will be high enough to need Orings AND 625s.

If you want orings, go for it. If it's not in the budget, it's not going to break you, I promise. But, the money you'd save from not wasting it on 625s could pay for orings, or a decent port and polish with a valve job, or maybe all three, depending on the shop's rates. Now THAT, would be money well spent.


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Im not sure if you caught it or not but I do have a 63mm on the truck now that Ive got set to 45psi in 5th gear. Although I dont know that itll make any difference on what studs to use or the o ring situation as we have discussed.

02 6 speed QCSB, drag comp, DAP 7x.010 SAC, 63/68/14 borg warner sxe, SB 3250 dd clutch, 5in exhaust, AFE intake, Fass 150, glowshift (EGT,boost,FP), chrome 20x14 xd riots, 33x12.5x20 toyo m/t, follow me on instagram @pr0ject_blue
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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 10:30 PM
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I have extreme studs, manton rods and budget valve springs. So that gets my vote
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