He351ve? Upgrade or no?

deerefanatic · 08-23-2009, 10:28 AM

Hi guys. My buddy with the 24V is looking to upgrade his turbo.. I'm thinking of setting him up with a HE351ve turbo... I read that the He351cw is a really good upgrade for us, and if I remember correctly, the ve has the same compressor side... But a different turbine section.... These VE's are all over eBay, and cheap too.. In fact, there's one right now that I'm pretty sure I'm gonna bid on...

From what I've read, the turbine section varies from a 3.5cm to a 25cm.... Should flow good in the top end right? I've got a method figured out to control it that I saw used on a vw diesel that had been retrofitted with one of these... Which will let me selectively activate the engine braking feature, and will take both boost and throttle position into account for boost level....

How much HP should these be good for? I guess what I'm asking is, how much HP can you chip a 6.7 up to before you run out of turbo?

__________________
-Matt
1995 Chevy C1500 6.5L Turbo Diesel; 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD; 1947 Chevy 1.5 ton - Getting a 6BT

**patracy** · 08-23-2009, 11:14 AM

Please elaborate more on the VGT controller you're talking about that allows all that.

__________________
1999 2500 4x4 Club Cab Sport. sorta functional ADRENALINE/pulse

, BHAF, FBD 150 sticks, 3rd Gen HE351 retrofit, Hamilton 110lb valve springs, A1 head studs, 5" FBD exhaust, Isspro Boost and Drive pressure gauges, fuel pressure gauge, FP light, Mallory Comp 250 pump, 1/2" big line kit, Draw straw, TC lockup switch, Stealth VP plate, BD TC, BD VB, Billet input, Derale pan. 462hp and 920ft-lbs 11/14/09, I know I can get 500hp...

side2000 · 08-23-2009, 11:37 AM

555hp 1167tq Stock Turb!

^ ^ ^ agreed you got some 'splainin to do.

__________________
'02HO, SO pump, nv5600 behind 550 valair single, FASS 150, Isspro: pyro, boost, fuel press. ddp 110's, stock turbo, 195k 'n countin fast, 5in. straight pipe, afe intake, edge drag comp, 315's.

broke nv56- - -wanna sell me one pm me.

deerefanatic · 08-23-2009, 11:41 AM

Well, I saw it on a youtube video... I'll explain it here and try and find the video too at some point....

It consists of s light spring that holds the vanes wide open when the throttle is totally relaxed.. This provides the failsafe if something breaks, and also keeps the turbo from choking the motor when idling... Then, you have a throttle cable attached to the vanes with a fairly decent spring.... That way, when you mash the go pedal, it closes the vanes up for fast spool... The further down you mash the pedal, the tighter the vanes close. Then you have a standard wastegate actuator that pushes the vanes back open as the boost comes up where you want it.... This prevents over-boost.

With this setup, you also don't have to worry about the turbo barking very easily as when you let up on the throttle, the vanes immediately open up wide...

For engine breaking, you put a 12 volt pull type solenoid on the vane control arm that pulls the vanes all the way shut when you let up on the throttle, creating the restriction and engine braking.... You have a toggle switch to enable/disable this option.

I hope that's clear enough to understand... The video shows it better... I'll try and find it.

__________________
-Matt
1995 Chevy C1500 6.5L Turbo Diesel; 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD; 1947 Chevy 1.5 ton - Getting a 6BT

Shibbyutman · 08-23-2009, 11:44 AM

EDIT: this ^^^^^ isn't what i was thinking about.... go check the TDI forums and have a look see.

I know what he's talking about guys, the TDI guys only have VNT turbos to work with since their motors are so small the really get choked on the top end by how small of a fixed turbo they could fit.

Go on VWvotex or TDIclub and make an account and search around. I'm not sure they 351VE will be able to be controlled the same as they are running the tiny turbos, but it'd be worth a shot.

__________________
2003 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4, PDR Cobra Stage 2 Twins, BD Power 90's, Studs, Springs, Autometers, Dual 7" Black Stacks/rain caps, Banks intercooler, Goerend Full Built Trans, Smarty set to Kill, MP-8, Full DIY CP3 Mod, Rail capped

, FASS 150/150, and big line kit.

deerefanatic · 08-23-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by side2000

555hp 1167tq Stock Turb!

^ ^ ^ agreed you got some 'splainin to do.

Ok, yah...... We're gonna do this!!

__________________
-Matt
1995 Chevy C1500 6.5L Turbo Diesel; 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD; 1947 Chevy 1.5 ton - Getting a 6BT

deerefanatic · 08-25-2009, 09:19 PM

Well, the VE is bought and in the mail.... We'll see....

__________________
-Matt
1995 Chevy C1500 6.5L Turbo Diesel; 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD; 1947 Chevy 1.5 ton - Getting a 6BT

deerefanatic · 08-28-2009, 09:45 AM

Holy Turbo Batman! This thing is huge! The Compressor housing is definitely an upgrade over he HX35, and the turbine housing is WAYYYY bigger.. This is definitely going to breathe well when set up...

__________________
-Matt
1995 Chevy C1500 6.5L Turbo Diesel; 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD; 1947 Chevy 1.5 ton - Getting a 6BT

CumminsDriver · 08-28-2009, 12:41 PM

The compressor is a 60mm inducer, and an 88mm exducer.

Most HX35's have between a 54-56mm inducer and a 78mm exducer.

The compressor is definately a good upgrade. I have a HE351cw on my 94 12 valve. I went from a 58mm HX40 and it cools better than my HX40 did by a decent bit. It also spools really fast. I was making 48psi when i first put the charger on, but i gated it back down to 38-40psi and it still seems to run as good and cool as good, but it should be easier on my head gasket and the turbo.

One thing to remember with the HE351ve is that you have to make an adapter to bolt it to a stock manifold. They dont have a T-3 or T-4 exhaust housing bolt pattern, and since the stock exhaust manifold on a cummins is a T-3, it will have to be a custom adapter. Its not a huge deal, but its the main reason i didnt put a VE on mine.

They are a great turbo over all though. Id say they will support a hot 450-500hp, but that is pretty awesome for a stock turbo and will make for a darn fast truck with the quick spool that they have.

Here is a video of my truck with the HE351cw on it.

YouTube - My 94 2500 Dodge

Eric

__________________
Silver 94 Dodge 2500 4x4 3:55 limited slip. Goerend TC/VB. #0, 4k, 191DV's, 215 injectors, 60/58/9 turbo, 4 inch exhaust

Number47 · 10-06-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CumminsDriver

The compressor is a 60mm inducer, and an 88mm exducer.

Most HX35's have between a 54-56mm inducer and a 78mm exducer.

The compressor is definately a good upgrade. I have a HE351cw on my 94 12 valve. I went from a 58mm HX40 and it cools better than my HX40 did by a decent bit. It also spools really fast. I was making 48psi when i first put the charger on, but i gated it back down to 38-40psi and it still seems to run as good and cool as good, but it should be easier on my head gasket and the turbo.

One thing to remember with the HE351ve is that you have to make an adapter to bolt it to a stock manifold. They dont have a T-3 or T-4 exhaust housing bolt pattern, and since the stock exhaust manifold on a cummins is a T-3, it will have to be a custom adapter. Its not a huge deal, but its the main reason i didnt put a VE on mine.

They are a great turbo over all though. Id say they will support a hot 450-500hp, but that is pretty awesome for a stock turbo and will make for a darn fast truck with the quick spool that they have.

Here is a video of my truck with the HE351cw on it.

YouTube - My 94 2500 Dodge

Eric

you have any pictures of your set up? how did you reclock the center section to match when the vanes on the nozzle index the exhaust housing?

__________________
00 3500 dually, 5 speed, 4 door, Gauges, with Quad Adrenaline, Raptor 150 with 1/2inc fuel lines, 4inch DP 5inch exhaust, BHAF, SBC DD clutch, good for 353.7hp and 938.2ftlbs torque. and more to come

smokin 98 cummins · 10-07-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CumminsDriver

The compressor is a 60mm inducer, and an 88mm exducer.

Most HX35's have between a 54-56mm inducer and a 78mm exducer.

The compressor is definately a good upgrade. I have a HE351cw on my 94 12 valve. I went from a 58mm HX40 and it cools better than my HX40 did by a decent bit. It also spools really fast. I was making 48psi when i first put the charger on, but i gated it back down to 38-40psi and it still seems to run as good and cool as good, but it should be easier on my head gasket and the turbo.

One thing to remember with the HE351ve is that you have to make an adapter to bolt it to a stock manifold. They dont have a T-3 or T-4 exhaust housing bolt pattern, and since the stock exhaust manifold on a cummins is a T-3, it will have to be a custom adapter. Its not a huge deal, but its the main reason i didnt put a VE on mine.

They are a great turbo over all though. Id say they will support a hot 450-500hp, but that is pretty awesome for a stock turbo and will make for a darn fast truck with the quick spool that they have.

Here is a video of my truck with the HE351cw on it.

YouTube - My 94 2500 Dodge

Eric

i have been thinking about this mod also. how difficult would it be to mod the 98 exhaust manifold? would it be easier to just pick up like an 06-07 exhaust manifold? and what else would be needed to connect from turbo to intercooler? thanks for the help

__________________
98 cummins 148K miles 4x4, compleatly built tranny by DTT diesel performance transmissions, tranny temp, egt, boost guages. Airdog 150!

**patracy** · 10-07-2009, 01:31 PM

Easiest would be to mill the VGT's housing down a bit, install blank studs in the orginal tapped holes, then drill and retap to the T3 pattern.

__________________
1999 2500 4x4 Club Cab Sport. sorta functional ADRENALINE/pulse

, BHAF, FBD 150 sticks, 3rd Gen HE351 retrofit, Hamilton 110lb valve springs, A1 head studs, 5" FBD exhaust, Isspro Boost and Drive pressure gauges, fuel pressure gauge, FP light, Mallory Comp 250 pump, 1/2" big line kit, Draw straw, TC lockup switch, Stealth VP plate, BD TC, BD VB, Billet input, Derale pan. 462hp and 920ft-lbs 11/14/09, I know I can get 500hp...

08-23-2009, 10:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
deerefanatic Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ladysmith, WI Posts: 189 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post deerefanatic's Truck Pics	He351ve? Upgrade or no? Hi guys. My buddy with the 24V is looking to upgrade his turbo.. I'm thinking of setting him up with a HE351ve turbo... I read that the He351cw is a really good upgrade for us, and if I remember correctly, the ve has the same compressor side... But a different turbine section.... These VE's are all over eBay, and cheap too.. In fact, there's one right now that I'm pretty sure I'm gonna bid on... From what I've read, the turbine section varies from a 3.5cm to a 25cm.... Should flow good in the top end right? I've got a method figured out to control it that I saw used on a vw diesel that had been retrofitted with one of these... Which will let me selectively activate the engine braking feature, and will take both boost and throttle position into account for boost level.... How much HP should these be good for? I guess what I'm asking is, how much HP can you chip a 6.7 up to before you run out of turbo? __________________ -Matt 1995 Chevy C1500 6.5L Turbo Diesel; 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD; 1947 Chevy 1.5 ton - Getting a 6BT

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08-23-2009, 11:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
patracy GA VP...so close to 500hp Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Buchanan, GA Posts: 3,729 Thanks: 30 Thanked 254 Times in 108 Posts patracy's Truck Pics	Please elaborate more on the VGT controller you're talking about that allows all that. __________________ 1999 2500 4x4 Club Cab Sport. sorta functional ADRENALINE/pulse , BHAF, FBD 150 sticks, 3rd Gen HE351 retrofit, Hamilton 110lb valve springs, A1 head studs, 5" FBD exhaust, Isspro Boost and Drive pressure gauges, fuel pressure gauge, FP light, Mallory Comp 250 pump, 1/2" big line kit, Draw straw, TC lockup switch, Stealth VP plate, BD TC, BD VB, Billet input, Derale pan. 462hp and 920ft-lbs 11/14/09, I know I can get 500hp...

08-23-2009, 11:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
side2000 Diesel Freak Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: MD Posts: 986 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts side2000's Truck Pics	555hp 1167tq Stock Turb! ^ ^ ^ agreed you got some 'splainin to do. __________________ '02HO, SO pump, nv5600 behind 550 valair single, FASS 150, Isspro: pyro, boost, fuel press. ddp 110's, stock turbo, 195k 'n countin fast, 5in. straight pipe, afe intake, edge drag comp, 315's. broke nv56- - -wanna sell me one pm me.

08-23-2009, 11:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
deerefanatic Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ladysmith, WI Posts: 189 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post deerefanatic's Truck Pics	Well, I saw it on a youtube video... I'll explain it here and try and find the video too at some point.... It consists of s light spring that holds the vanes wide open when the throttle is totally relaxed.. This provides the failsafe if something breaks, and also keeps the turbo from choking the motor when idling... Then, you have a throttle cable attached to the vanes with a fairly decent spring.... That way, when you mash the go pedal, it closes the vanes up for fast spool... The further down you mash the pedal, the tighter the vanes close. Then you have a standard wastegate actuator that pushes the vanes back open as the boost comes up where you want it.... This prevents over-boost. With this setup, you also don't have to worry about the turbo barking very easily as when you let up on the throttle, the vanes immediately open up wide... For engine breaking, you put a 12 volt pull type solenoid on the vane control arm that pulls the vanes all the way shut when you let up on the throttle, creating the restriction and engine braking.... You have a toggle switch to enable/disable this option. I hope that's clear enough to understand... The video shows it better... I'll try and find it. __________________ -Matt 1995 Chevy C1500 6.5L Turbo Diesel; 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD; 1947 Chevy 1.5 ton - Getting a 6BT

08-23-2009, 11:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
Shibbyutman Diesel Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Superior Township, Michigan Posts: 4,118 Thanks: 0 Thanked 170 Times in 120 Posts Shibbyutman's Truck Pics	EDIT: this ^^^^^ isn't what i was thinking about.... go check the TDI forums and have a look see. I know what he's talking about guys, the TDI guys only have VNT turbos to work with since their motors are so small the really get choked on the top end by how small of a fixed turbo they could fit. Go on VWvotex or TDIclub and make an account and search around. I'm not sure they 351VE will be able to be controlled the same as they are running the tiny turbos, but it'd be worth a shot. __________________ 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4, PDR Cobra Stage 2 Twins, BD Power 90's, Studs, Springs, Autometers, Dual 7" Black Stacks/rain caps, Banks intercooler, Goerend Full Built Trans, Smarty set to Kill, MP-8, Full DIY CP3 Mod, Rail capped , FASS 150/150, and big line kit.

08-25-2009, 09:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
deerefanatic Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ladysmith, WI Posts: 189 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post deerefanatic's Truck Pics	Well, the VE is bought and in the mail.... We'll see.... __________________ -Matt 1995 Chevy C1500 6.5L Turbo Diesel; 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD; 1947 Chevy 1.5 ton - Getting a 6BT

08-28-2009, 09:45 AM	#8 (permalink)
deerefanatic Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ladysmith, WI Posts: 189 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post deerefanatic's Truck Pics	Holy Turbo Batman! This thing is huge! The Compressor housing is definitely an upgrade over he HX35, and the turbine housing is WAYYYY bigger.. This is definitely going to breathe well when set up... __________________ -Matt 1995 Chevy C1500 6.5L Turbo Diesel; 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD; 1947 Chevy 1.5 ton - Getting a 6BT

08-28-2009, 12:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
CumminsDriver Diesel Freak Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lancaster, Ky Posts: 517 Thanks: 2 Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts CumminsDriver's Truck Pics	The compressor is a 60mm inducer, and an 88mm exducer. Most HX35's have between a 54-56mm inducer and a 78mm exducer. The compressor is definately a good upgrade. I have a HE351cw on my 94 12 valve. I went from a 58mm HX40 and it cools better than my HX40 did by a decent bit. It also spools really fast. I was making 48psi when i first put the charger on, but i gated it back down to 38-40psi and it still seems to run as good and cool as good, but it should be easier on my head gasket and the turbo. One thing to remember with the HE351ve is that you have to make an adapter to bolt it to a stock manifold. They dont have a T-3 or T-4 exhaust housing bolt pattern, and since the stock exhaust manifold on a cummins is a T-3, it will have to be a custom adapter. Its not a huge deal, but its the main reason i didnt put a VE on mine. They are a great turbo over all though. Id say they will support a hot 450-500hp, but that is pretty awesome for a stock turbo and will make for a darn fast truck with the quick spool that they have. Here is a video of my truck with the HE351cw on it. YouTube - My 94 2500 Dodge Eric __________________ Silver 94 Dodge 2500 4x4 3:55 limited slip. Goerend TC/VB. #0, 4k, 191DV's, 215 injectors, 60/58/9 turbo, 4 inch exhaust

10-07-2009, 01:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
patracy GA VP...so close to 500hp Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Buchanan, GA Posts: 3,729 Thanks: 30 Thanked 254 Times in 108 Posts patracy's Truck Pics	Easiest would be to mill the VGT's housing down a bit, install blank studs in the orginal tapped holes, then drill and retap to the T3 pattern. __________________ 1999 2500 4x4 Club Cab Sport. sorta functional ADRENALINE/pulse , BHAF, FBD 150 sticks, 3rd Gen HE351 retrofit, Hamilton 110lb valve springs, A1 head studs, 5" FBD exhaust, Isspro Boost and Drive pressure gauges, fuel pressure gauge, FP light, Mallory Comp 250 pump, 1/2" big line kit, Draw straw, TC lockup switch, Stealth VP plate, BD TC, BD VB, Billet input, Derale pan. 462hp and 920ft-lbs 11/14/09, I know I can get 500hp...