Brake tech thread...

Bandit · 09-14-2008, 05:20 PM

I've decided to start a thread on brake maintenance because I've seen so many different answers on bleeding the system and such so I thought I'd make a thread to maybe quash these problems once and for all. Just for reference I'm a licensed HD Equipment technician so I'm not just winging this. If anyone has anything helpful to add please do.:thumbsup

So safety first, park the vehicle on level ground and disconnect the battery (always a good practice), wear eye protection, I can't stress this enough as brake fluid WILL get all over and it's no fun when it's in the eyes. Ok, here's the beast which is in need of a new master cylinder (leaking) and needs new fluid (very contaminated). there is no front wheel ABS on this vehicle so I won't be covering bleeding that. Just a note on Brake fluid, as far as I'm aware Dodge Rams uses either DOT 3 or 4 (polyethylene glycol based), do NOT put DOT 5 in the system, if you do expect do put in a new brake system as DOT 5 is a silicone based fluid that is not compatible with DOT 3 or 4 and it will eat the rubber seals in the MC, wheel cylinders, calipers, rubber hoses. Depending on where you live you may have some rust and corrosion from road salt (not a problem where I live), just spray down the brake fittings with some Penetrating spray/oil and let it soak in for a while, I found holding the MC or combo valve with a cresent wrench and a brake line wrench on the fitting i could break the torque without bending the brake lines.

The parts I've picked up are a new MC, and a combination valve as it was also leaking from the sensor connector and one it had a cross threaded hole (This is a dealership only part also), some DOT4 brake fluid. Tools needed are metric/standard brake line wrenches and other common hand tools.

The first thing before replacing and installing a MC is we should always bench bleed the MC, easier on a bench vice rather then in the vehicle, and It will tell us if the MC is in good shape, new defective parts do come from the factory and doing this can tell you that. So the first thing we do is mount it in a vice (do not put the MC bore into the vice it may damage it, use the mounting flanges instead), I then fill up the reservoir to the max level and I remove the 2 plugs on the side of the cylinder, (I didn't have a bleeding kit so I had to do this manually). I then take a brass punch and push repeatedly on the rear piston and start flooding the bore with fluid, I pump this enough times till a steady stream of fluid jets out and the air is pushed out, then reinstall the plugs to keep it from draining. By doing this i've ensured the MC is filled ready to go and is not bypassing (the piston seals are good).

Removing the MC itself is fairly easy as it is held on the brake booster by 2 metric (15mm) nuts, after disconnecting the various brakes lines/connectors off from the combination valve and RWAL valve. The MC just pops off and is ready to be exchanged with the serviceable unit. Place a rag under the unit because fluid gets everywhere and it will eat the paint on the fender well if let unattended.

After the new MC is in, connect all the lines and connectors, use brake line wrenches if you got them, I find open end wrenches round the edges and kink the brake lines as they are usually slightly rusted on. Now your ready to bleed. The next step is the funnest , yeah right. Bleeding the brakes is key, and the method I've done here has proven itself yet again for me so here we go. Unless you got a bleeder bottle or vacuum pump this will require a partner is crime to help. I've also installed a new Combination valve (metering & pressure differential switch), this is an expensive unit but since mine is faulty I need to replace it, if yours is leaking through the sensor you can take it out with a wrench and replace the rubber o-ring inside.

Step 1: Make sure the reservoir is topped up at all times, if you run out during bleeding air will get back into the MC and your efforts will have been fruitless.

(Start bleeding in this order, MC, Combo valve, RWAL valve, proportioning valve (if equipped), pass. rear, driver rear, pass. front, driver front.)

Step 2: start with the MC and crack the rear fitting, have your partner push the pedal almost to the floor and tighten the fitting back up, wait 5 seconds and do it again, do this 7-10 times or until the air bubbles is out, do the same for the front MC fitting and work your way down through the combo valve and finish with the RWAL valve, it takes time so be patient (took me an hour to get it right once).

Step 3: After that is all good to go we start at the wheels, the rear uses a 8mm wrench (preferably) and the front calipers use a 10mm (you do not have to pull the wheels off to bleed the front).:thumbsup
Work your way through the wheels until a steady stream comes out, if it farts then air is being released and that's a good thing, keep doing this in a round robin until all wheels are perfect. Use some brake cleaner to clean around the calipers/ backing plates as brake fluid likes to eat paint and the wax coating found on suspension/frame parts. While your under there it is also a good time to inspect brake components for leaks or damage.

Step 4: Once satisfied with your bleeding take a test drive to confirm your work, if the pedal feels spongy or sinks to the floor you still have air in the system (or a leak) and you need to keeping bleeding (took me 2 tries to get mine done right). Clean up your mess, reconnect the battery leads and your good to go!

Last edited by Bandit : 09-15-2008 at 12:25 PM.

BBRam · 09-14-2008, 08:02 PM

Wow, Thank you. :thumbsup

__________________

03-3500, DRW, QC, 4x4, R850 BD Twins, BD IC Boots, BD Billet Flexplate, Full Billet DTT Trans, Lockup Switch, SMARTY TNT-R / TS MP-8, Wicked Diesels Eliminator Fuel System & Coolant Bypass, Floor It Stage 3 CP3 & Rail Cap, BIG Stix's by FTE, ARP Head Stud's, Springs, Fluidampr, ATS ARC-FLOW, Mag-Hytec, AFE, Boost, Drive Pressure, Pyro, Fuel Pressure, Tran's Temp, Rail Pressure Gauge, GDP Ladder Bars, GrandRock 7" Miters. (R/T .021, 60' 1.76, 1/4 ET 13.03 @ 102.05 mph)

July 2009 Cummins Forum ROTM Winner

95 1500 Sport 2wd Cummins Drag Truck under construction.

"In search of the Magic Dyno"

Bandit · 09-14-2008, 10:40 PM

Yup np, I did this bc i've spent many countless hours trying to find "the" bleeding procedure for a 94-02 ram, there is generic procedures out there but they don't cover every application out there, so hopefully this helps.

dieseltracks · 09-14-2008, 10:48 PM

Awesome write-up Bandit. :thumbsup

__________________
Dave
02 2500 QC Longbed 4x4--Goerend Triple Disk TC/VB/Flexplate/Billet input--VA/TST PM3--FTE 100hp injectors--BD 3-pc ported manifold--HX35--95gph HPFP--4" exhaust with a 7" blowhole

BE SURE TO CHECK OUT OUR CF SITE SPONSORS FOR ALL YOUR PARTS NEEDS!!

Bandit · 09-14-2008, 10:51 PM

I took many pics of actually taking each part out but they were a bit fuzzy but if your mechanically incline enough you don't need me showing you how to put a 15mm socket of the MC flange nuts.

Last edited by Bandit : 09-14-2008 at 10:56 PM.

BBRam · 09-15-2008, 07:33 AM

Moved to the 94-98 Tech Article forum. :thumbsup

__________________

03-3500, DRW, QC, 4x4, R850 BD Twins, BD IC Boots, BD Billet Flexplate, Full Billet DTT Trans, Lockup Switch, SMARTY TNT-R / TS MP-8, Wicked Diesels Eliminator Fuel System & Coolant Bypass, Floor It Stage 3 CP3 & Rail Cap, BIG Stix's by FTE, ARP Head Stud's, Springs, Fluidampr, ATS ARC-FLOW, Mag-Hytec, AFE, Boost, Drive Pressure, Pyro, Fuel Pressure, Tran's Temp, Rail Pressure Gauge, GDP Ladder Bars, GrandRock 7" Miters. (R/T .021, 60' 1.76, 1/4 ET 13.03 @ 102.05 mph)

July 2009 Cummins Forum ROTM Winner

95 1500 Sport 2wd Cummins Drag Truck under construction.

"In search of the Magic Dyno"

Last edited by BBRam : 09-17-2008 at 09:05 AM.

09-14-2008, 05:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
Bandit Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: On the moon Posts: 1,324 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Bandit's Truck Pics	Brake tech thread... I've decided to start a thread on brake maintenance because I've seen so many different answers on bleeding the system and such so I thought I'd make a thread to maybe quash these problems once and for all. Just for reference I'm a licensed HD Equipment technician so I'm not just winging this. If anyone has anything helpful to add please do.:thumbsup So safety first, park the vehicle on level ground and disconnect the battery (always a good practice), wear eye protection, I can't stress this enough as brake fluid WILL get all over and it's no fun when it's in the eyes. Ok, here's the beast which is in need of a new master cylinder (leaking) and needs new fluid (very contaminated). there is no front wheel ABS on this vehicle so I won't be covering bleeding that. Just a note on Brake fluid, as far as I'm aware Dodge Rams uses either DOT 3 or 4 (polyethylene glycol based), do NOT put DOT 5 in the system, if you do expect do put in a new brake system as DOT 5 is a silicone based fluid that is not compatible with DOT 3 or 4 and it will eat the rubber seals in the MC, wheel cylinders, calipers, rubber hoses. Depending on where you live you may have some rust and corrosion from road salt (not a problem where I live), just spray down the brake fittings with some Penetrating spray/oil and let it soak in for a while, I found holding the MC or combo valve with a cresent wrench and a brake line wrench on the fitting i could break the torque without bending the brake lines. The parts I've picked up are a new MC, and a combination valve as it was also leaking from the sensor connector and one it had a cross threaded hole (This is a dealership only part also), some DOT4 brake fluid. Tools needed are metric/standard brake line wrenches and other common hand tools. The first thing before replacing and installing a MC is we should always bench bleed the MC, easier on a bench vice rather then in the vehicle, and It will tell us if the MC is in good shape, new defective parts do come from the factory and doing this can tell you that. So the first thing we do is mount it in a vice (do not put the MC bore into the vice it may damage it, use the mounting flanges instead), I then fill up the reservoir to the max level and I remove the 2 plugs on the side of the cylinder, (I didn't have a bleeding kit so I had to do this manually). I then take a brass punch and push repeatedly on the rear piston and start flooding the bore with fluid, I pump this enough times till a steady stream of fluid jets out and the air is pushed out, then reinstall the plugs to keep it from draining. By doing this i've ensured the MC is filled ready to go and is not bypassing (the piston seals are good). Removing the MC itself is fairly easy as it is held on the brake booster by 2 metric (15mm) nuts, after disconnecting the various brakes lines/connectors off from the combination valve and RWAL valve. The MC just pops off and is ready to be exchanged with the serviceable unit. Place a rag under the unit because fluid gets everywhere and it will eat the paint on the fender well if let unattended. After the new MC is in, connect all the lines and connectors, use brake line wrenches if you got them, I find open end wrenches round the edges and kink the brake lines as they are usually slightly rusted on. Now your ready to bleed. The next step is the funnest , yeah right. Bleeding the brakes is key, and the method I've done here has proven itself yet again for me so here we go. Unless you got a bleeder bottle or vacuum pump this will require a partner is crime to help. I've also installed a new Combination valve (metering & pressure differential switch), this is an expensive unit but since mine is faulty I need to replace it, if yours is leaking through the sensor you can take it out with a wrench and replace the rubber o-ring inside. Step 1: Make sure the reservoir is topped up at all times, if you run out during bleeding air will get back into the MC and your efforts will have been fruitless. (Start bleeding in this order, MC, Combo valve, RWAL valve, proportioning valve (if equipped), pass. rear, driver rear, pass. front, driver front.) Step 2: start with the MC and crack the rear fitting, have your partner push the pedal almost to the floor and tighten the fitting back up, wait 5 seconds and do it again, do this 7-10 times or until the air bubbles is out, do the same for the front MC fitting and work your way down through the combo valve and finish with the RWAL valve, it takes time so be patient (took me an hour to get it right once). Step 3: After that is all good to go we start at the wheels, the rear uses a 8mm wrench (preferably) and the front calipers use a 10mm (you do not have to pull the wheels off to bleed the front).:thumbsup Work your way through the wheels until a steady stream comes out, if it farts then air is being released and that's a good thing, keep doing this in a round robin until all wheels are perfect. Use some brake cleaner to clean around the calipers/ backing plates as brake fluid likes to eat paint and the wax coating found on suspension/frame parts. While your under there it is also a good time to inspect brake components for leaks or damage. Step 4: Once satisfied with your bleeding take a test drive to confirm your work, if the pedal feels spongy or sinks to the floor you still have air in the system (or a leak) and you need to keeping bleeding (took me 2 tries to get mine done right). Clean up your mess, reconnect the battery leads and your good to go! Last edited by Bandit : 09-15-2008 at 12:25 PM.

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09-14-2008, 08:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
BBRam Super Administrator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chelsea MI Posts: 23,419 Thanks: 173 Thanked 247 Times in 161 Posts BBRam's Truck Pics	Wow, Thank you. :thumbsup __________________ 03-3500, DRW, QC, 4x4, R850 BD Twins, BD IC Boots, BD Billet Flexplate, Full Billet DTT Trans, Lockup Switch, SMARTY TNT-R / TS MP-8, Wicked Diesels Eliminator Fuel System & Coolant Bypass, Floor It Stage 3 CP3 & Rail Cap, BIG Stix's by FTE, ARP Head Stud's, Springs, Fluidampr, ATS ARC-FLOW, Mag-Hytec, AFE, Boost, Drive Pressure, Pyro, Fuel Pressure, Tran's Temp, Rail Pressure Gauge, GDP Ladder Bars, GrandRock 7" Miters. (R/T .021, 60' 1.76, 1/4 ET 13.03 @ 102.05 mph) July 2009 Cummins Forum ROTM Winner 95 1500 Sport 2wd Cummins Drag Truck under construction. "In search of the Magic Dyno"

09-14-2008, 10:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
Bandit Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: On the moon Posts: 1,324 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Bandit's Truck Pics	Yup np, I did this bc i've spent many countless hours trying to find "the" bleeding procedure for a 94-02 ram, there is generic procedures out there but they don't cover every application out there, so hopefully this helps.

09-14-2008, 10:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
dieseltracks Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Flora, Indiana Posts: 4,702 Thanks: 4 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts dieseltracks's Truck Pics	Awesome write-up Bandit. :thumbsup __________________ Dave 02 2500 QC Longbed 4x4--Goerend Triple Disk TC/VB/Flexplate/Billet input--VA/TST PM3--FTE 100hp injectors--BD 3-pc ported manifold--HX35--95gph HPFP--4" exhaust with a 7" blowhole BE SURE TO CHECK OUT OUR CF SITE SPONSORS FOR ALL YOUR PARTS NEEDS!!

09-14-2008, 10:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Bandit Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: On the moon Posts: 1,324 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Bandit's Truck Pics	I took many pics of actually taking each part out but they were a bit fuzzy but if your mechanically incline enough you don't need me showing you how to put a 15mm socket of the MC flange nuts. Last edited by Bandit : 09-14-2008 at 10:56 PM.

09-15-2008, 07:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
BBRam Super Administrator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chelsea MI Posts: 23,419 Thanks: 173 Thanked 247 Times in 161 Posts BBRam's Truck Pics	Moved to the 94-98 Tech Article forum. :thumbsup __________________ 03-3500, DRW, QC, 4x4, R850 BD Twins, BD IC Boots, BD Billet Flexplate, Full Billet DTT Trans, Lockup Switch, SMARTY TNT-R / TS MP-8, Wicked Diesels Eliminator Fuel System & Coolant Bypass, Floor It Stage 3 CP3 & Rail Cap, BIG Stix's by FTE, ARP Head Stud's, Springs, Fluidampr, ATS ARC-FLOW, Mag-Hytec, AFE, Boost, Drive Pressure, Pyro, Fuel Pressure, Tran's Temp, Rail Pressure Gauge, GDP Ladder Bars, GrandRock 7" Miters. (R/T .021, 60' 1.76, 1/4 ET 13.03 @ 102.05 mph) July 2009 Cummins Forum ROTM Winner 95 1500 Sport 2wd Cummins Drag Truck under construction. "In search of the Magic Dyno" Last edited by BBRam : 09-17-2008 at 09:05 AM.