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94-98 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

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Old 12-19-2010, 12:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Cummins CPL Fuel Plate Cross Reference Available?

I know the Cummins 6BT engines are rated all the way from about 160 to 370 hp and assume the most of them have different fuel plates for the P7100 injector pump. If that is not true would someone let me know?

If it is true it would seem if someone that has access to the Cummins parts info might be able to put together a list of what part # is used with what CPL/horse power level for our engines. I understand the fuel plates from Cummins are much cheaper than after market plates and might be used for our build up purposes. I also understand other issues than the plate are involved, but this might help with cost on that item which is an issue for many of us.

Am I all wet here or on to something? I have searched and can't seem to find anything addressing the idea.
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Old 12-19-2010, 02:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You're a bit wet, and I'm trying to understand what "something" you are trying to get on to.

Fuel plates are only a part of the advertised HP equation. The higher 370 hp rated stock 6BT's have bigger injectors (155 marine), and the pistons are different. There are variations within the plunger/barrel design between the P7100's, specifically in the 215 HP design, etc.

I'm actually not sure what the fuel plate differences are between applications. I'm pretty sure all stock plate profiles are the same within the automotive application, but someone may correct me on this.

If you're power hunting, get rid of your plate and read up on tuning the AFC for controlling you fueling...
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The "something" is price.
As I stated above, I understand the FP is just one part of the equation, and my opinion is the fuel plate needs to be installed. I know there are plenty of views both ways and I am not interested in opening that debate.
My question is are there different fuel plate profiles for different CPL/horsepower levels from Cummins and if so has anyone looked into what they are and how they might compare to some of the after market items such as TSTs. Anyone?
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Hmmm, not sure. But you can buy brand new well made CNC milled plates on ebay for $30, cheaper than that and you'd have to be making your own. Even if cummins made different profiles they'd be WAY more expensive than what's available in the aftermarket...
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Old 12-19-2010, 04:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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their is no such thing that you are after.

No stock bosch plate is going to match an aftermarket plate. their are so many variables that come into play that its not even funny.

Aftermarket plates are designed for goons that want easy power. factory bosch plates are designed to do exactly what they are supposed to do, manipulate the torque/hp curve of the engine to suit its particular application and configuration.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So anyone who puts in an aftermarket torque plate is a "goon"?

Is there anyone who could explain what the factory Bosch torque plates actually do and what the potential is for using them in different CPL/HP rated engines?
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Old 12-19-2010, 11:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I see the $30 plates on ebay. That is about the best price I've seen. Thanks for the tip! Do you know how closely they match the TST numbering system for their profiles (the guy in Rowland Heights, California?) Wonder how one might contact them directly by phone? Anyone done any business with them?

Last edited by trj; 12-19-2010 at 11:29 PM. Reason: New info
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Old 12-19-2010, 11:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well the 'goon' thing is a bit harsh, but what he's trying to say in so many words is that it's all marketing hype. Those HP ratings for aftermarket plates will never produce the exact numbers they're rated at, these are 12V's, not CR's. Every one's unique, and will require it's own settings to produce its own tune that works best for it.

The ebay #'s correspond exactly to TST's #'s.

From the beginners thread:

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Originally Posted by 12VEG View Post
Fuel Plates

- Fuel plates control the fueling curve after the governor lever clears the AFC arm. You'll hear lots of talk and debate about fuel plates (#10/#100/#0/#5/ etc.), which one to run in which application, whether to run one or not, whether damage can result from not running one, etc. They are completely application specific, and there is no one size fits all. They are not pointless, as some would like to say, but they are a tuning tool. Appropriately they are a "Full Load Throttle Stop." If you have, say, large injectors but no turbo yet, you may consider a fuel plate to keep from overspeeding your poor little stock turbo @ full throttle.

More and more are simply not running them, it's good for about a free 80-100 hp (*estimated*), when combined with the AFC mods and lots of flathead screwdriver tuning) depending on what year truck you have. Many now conclude that running with no plate will not harm your truck, but there are still those who say it will. I personally have never seen an instance where a catastrophic pump failure was documented to have occurred due to lack of fuel plate. Tech section has more info on this subject.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info on the TST #s. The info is valuable to me.

I read the entire newbie info. post and all the links in it in the past few days with interest. The 0/10/100 fuel plate explanation I think I understand pretty well but TST seems to provide more incremental steps toward the power level goals one might be after. I tried to post my truck profile but it doesn't seem to like the way I put it in, so here it is: 1997 Dodge CTD 25OO Ext cab HX35 47re w/billet TC, lock up switch, & Valve Body 3.54 axle 235x85-16 tires pretty much stock except for the trans.

I know these engines were de-rated due to the drive train problems, mostly the transmissions. With the BD kit, TC lockup switch, and billet TC I believe I can move up the power to the design level the engine was originally intended to produce for road use. I just don't know what that was. I am after efficiency and mpg. 95% of my use is running with around 7100-8500 lbs. on the truck alone and get around 22-24 mpg highway. I did have a really heavy gross combined load the other day for around 800 miles and It handled it fine, but that is not the typical use.

I read....somewhere....I think in the turbo link, that a stock HX35 is good for up to 300 HP which I'm sure is more than I need. That suites me fine because they are economical and available if needed (I have 165000 miles on my truck). I don't want to mess with studs in the head or replacing valve springs and they don't appear to be necessary for my goals.

I don't like running over around 2000 RPM and can't recall going over about 2200-2300 ever. I just don't need it.

I want my EGT to stay as low as is feasible (my wife may drive it some) but am thinking a combination something like this:

-#6 or #8 fuel plate with required AFC mods/adjustments and Mack rack plug (is this plug needed for my use?)
-valve in the waste gate line and boost adjusted to 30 psi (note I live in colo. Elevation issues?)
-BHAF
-Timing advanced to 15.5 degrees

I do have EGT/boost/fuel pressure/trans. temp gauges. Any advice or comments would be appreciated. Sorry about the long post but I think it covers things pretty well.

Last edited by trj; 12-20-2010 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Ok, that would have been a good first post right there. None of us could understand what you were getting at with all of the talk of fuel plates, and most of us don't run them.

A #10 is a desirable plate for towing because it lets fuel come on nice and easy in the beginning and allows more fueling up top where you need power/tq.

I'd do the AFC mods for sure, and put a #10 full forward for your application. Also, a 3k GSK would liven things up a little too. Don't worry about the mack plug, unless you really want the extra fueling, it sounds like you may not be needing it for what you do.

Also, 16 timing, BHAF, 4" exhaust, and w/g at 35 psi would be great accompanying mods...
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1997 2500 SCLB NV4500 4x4 - 5x.012 VCO's, No Plate, Modded and Tuned AFC, 4K GSK/60# VS, 2095 Plug, 16 Timing, 4" TBE, K&N Intake, Isspro EV Gauges, South Bend SDD3250, BFG All-Terrains, Bilstein 5100's, KDP Tabbed, Steering Box Stabilizer, 40 Gal. Veggie Oil System, B100 & WVO burner!
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Any thoughts on the TST fuel plates?

Also I am told by some who seem knowledgeable that an increase from stock exhaust is not necessary at the power levels I am interested in. Is the 4 in. exhaust really improving things?

I also read here about removing some of the partition separating exhaust cylinders 1/2/3 from 4/5/6 so the turbo gets a better balance of exhaust flow. Are there any threads with pics on doing this? Will it help any with the goals I am after such as lower EGT?

Last edited by trj; 12-20-2010 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Again, the factory bosch plates are all designed per the specific application to do exactly what they are supposed to do. manipulate the torque curve of the engine to suit the application.

These engines were designed specifically for dodges application, they are not a de-tuned industrial engine. Its an automotive application engine, which has been set up to dodges specifications for torque rise and max hp. they make the power that they were intended to.


As for the TST plates, yes they do offer the obvious power gians but are pretty overpriced. youll get the same outcome with a $20 ebay plate!

As for the exhaust, it can actually be more detrimenal to flow if you remove the divider because it creates turbulence. same can be said for drilling out the scross so that it vents both sides. A 4" exhaust will be good for 100* fdrop in EGTs

if your that worried about EGTs, you may want to look into a 14cm housing to open up the turbine side a bit. @ 300hp your starting to push the limits of what the stock HX35 can support, anything you can do to help it out would be beneficial.
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