Dangerously low idle setting, oil leak, KPD kit install cost

[97 12-valve Cummins Power]

Hey guys,

I just purchase my 1997 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 12-valve Cummins (yes I just like typing that out). My first Dodge Cummins, but I am in no way new to diesels or Cummins engines. Ive been infected for a long time.

The good news: The truck made it all the way through a 500+ mile drive from Lancaster, PA to Ann Arbor, MI (I stopped of in Gettysburg, PA). Thats 12-straight hours of driving (like the symmetry?). Over mountains and 90* weather.

The bad: The idle setting is WAY to low, under 500rpm! I found this out the hard way. Like stalling 4 times when I tried to back out of a quiznos sandwhich place in Breezewood, PA and looking like a fool. The truck also stalled at a PA turnpike toll booth, fun fun.. Anyway, I quickly diagnosed the problem as a low idle setting and figured out how to work around it. The truck runs good without stalling with the A/C off at all rpm. Though it does kind of sputter when the rpm first dips below 500 rpm then comes back up a little, like when you stop at a light. The truck runs at idle (below 500rpm still my you) with the A/C on in park without stalling. Turn the A/C on at idle and put the truck in gear and it stalls out every time consistanly. The Cummins also seems like its having a little of a hard time starting without opening the throttle 1/4. Even in 80* weather. Whats the general amount of time in seconds a 12-valve should take to start in 70-80* weather after turning the key to the start posistion? The engine also develops a very distinct lope after it idle for a while. Sounds kinda like a super stock sled puller, haha.

Im 99% sure this is a incorrect idle setting, would you guys agree??

My local Cummins service center quoted me $50-250$ to fix this, does that sound like the right range?

I also noticed two very small oil leak under my truck on the passenger side today. Maybe from the front of the oil pan or front cover, I have to check more carefully tommorow. Thoughts??

Also, I intended to kick some KDP butt right away (assuming it hasnt been take care of yet) and my local Cummins service center quoted me $500-600 for that job. Does that sound right?? Ive read from Diesel Power Magazine that the job should only take a skilled mechanic 2-3hrs and cost $200-300.

The Cummins service center quoted me $135 to adjust the valve lash also.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, appreciate it.

Have a good one,

Garrett

-Yes, I realize I messed up "KDP" in the title..

[Motorboat]

All off your queries are addressed in the "Read this First" or "Beginners". If you insist on having Cummins do the work, get a package deal instead of individual prices. You can do the idle your self in less than a half hour and that includeds finding the bolt the first time.....lol.

Spend some time reading..its well worth it.

[Joe G.]

If you do the work and buy the parts the total cost of the job can be less than $50. You can make a tab for the KDP. Buy a gear case cover gasket and seal. Setting the idle costs nothing.

[zthatzmanz28]

Our 98 was also way off with the idle. It also sounded like it was dropping something out the bottom when it was shut down. Just changed the OFV and the idle is much improved--$50 and 10 minutes of my time. It also doesn't shake when it is shut down. When we were looking at trucks, I came across a real nice 460 gasser. The guy towed snow mobiles in the back country. I asked what the mpg was and why he didn't have a diesel. He said he would rather get 11-14 mpg and have a maintenance bill less than $600 per tune up for a diesel vs. $100 for a gasser. I asked how did it cost $600 to tune a diesel? (He said it cost him $150 to change the oil??)

He had a shop do all his work. He couldn't wrench to save his life so he was willing to accept the gasser over the diesel even tough it was probably cheaper to run the diesel if he could do his own wrenching.

Sorry for the L O N G post. I guess the story is a diesel(or a big gasser) will break the bank if it goes in the shop for the majority of repairs and maintenance.

[97 12-valve Cummins Power]

Yes, I know I can do all the work myself theoretically. Thats not what I asked.. Ive read about and or have seen about videos about what I need done.

I am only an okay wrencher. Intake and exhaust stuff is easy for me, but I would not be confident changing the idle setting (even though its just adjusting a scew) without seeing some one who knows exactly what there doing demonstrate the procedure first. Definitely not taking off the front cover, all that accesories, and putting it back together right....

I am probably going to have the guy who has done some work on other diesels of mine do the work and watch what he does very carefully so I can fix stuff myself in the future.

[zthatzmanz28]

I would guess that if the KDP is a 2-3 hour job, and labor is near $100 hour and then parts are probably another $100-$150 the price quoted is probably in the ball park.

Have you looked for an independent mechanic that has diesel experience? It could be possible to get the cost down to $250?

[97 12-valve Cummins Power]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

I would guess that if the KDP is a 2-3 hour job, and labor is near $100 hour and then parts are probably another $100-$150 the price quoted is probably in the ball park.

Have you looked for an independent mechanic that has diesel experience? It could be possible to get the cost down to $250?

Yes, I am most likely going to take the truck to my diesel guy Mike Hallas of Hallas Performance in Romeo, MI. He works on all kinds of diesels. He's a Ford master mechanic and has his own shop he works in at night. He competed in the Diesel Power Challenge 2007 in the big red Ford dually. He works on Cummins, Powerstrokes, Duramax's, does Ford Cummins conversions, etc. He turned a Dodge Ram into a tracked tank for the Discovery Channel show "Ultimate Car Build Off".

He also has a 900hp 12-valve himself

He is a real cool guy and his prices are very reasonable.

I just gave my local Cummins service center a call to see what they would quote me for comparison reasons.

Just curious would you guys recommend a Cummins service center over a Dodge dealer for engine work? Ive heard a few guys say dont take your Cummins to a Dodge dealer for engine work/service.

Thanks,

[sdiesel]

jump in and do it yourself
its obvious that you want to do it just lack the confidence and you get confidence by doing it right and experience from doing it wrong and having to redo it ( and you learn to swear)

no one likes to spend money they don't have to spend but everyone likes to be in control and that is what you will have if you just try it yourself

look on you tube for videos and developf riends through a local cummins club most of the fellas are almost too eager to help out with that kind of work yo have mentioned

there is a clever way to fix the dowell pin without taking the front of the engine off too it takes about 30 minutes .

idle is seconds
dont be afraid of the bugger its just a machine and if you screw up the job its still gonna cost you les than taking it to a mechanic well most of the time anyway I would have a seasoned mechanic adjust the valve lash and its probably right on anyway.
this too can be accessed through the local cummins club
some of those guys are very good mechanics some are hacks but you will get a lot of help

[Motorboat]

97-12,
I understand completly your fears about doing it yourself. Additionally I can relate to the comfort level you feel when having someone else do the work afterall, if it screws up you can always take it back, right.

Bear in mind if you wil, l that it is always best to know how to do something. If you don't want to do it yourself. at least know how it should be done.

There is an old adage that goes something like this: "Those who can, do, those that can't, teach".

After you have read about the procedure that you are going to pay for you can ask how "they" are going to do it. If it doesn't jibe with what you have read, you will at least be lnowledgable enough to ask some questions.

Let me give you an example: I want 60lb. exhaust springs in stalled on my engine. I know how to do it but physicaly I can not due to a severe back injury. I called Cummins and asked for a quote re: estimate on the cost. Two hours later she caled back and said 4 hours labor. Thier rate is $105.00 per hour. We began to talk! I mentioned companion cylinders and it became obvious she had no idea of what I was referring to. Finally, she admitted that she went downstairs to the shop and asked an experienced mechanic his opinion and that is what she based her estimate on. He response to her was: "tell him four hours, that will keep us out of trouble". Longer story shortened, she agreed to do it for $210.00 with the caviot that I do not discuss the price with the mechanic. They pay thier mechanics by the hour and not flat rate.

I'm letting them do it next week. $210.00 is better than $420.00. It would be a lot cheaper (gaskets maybe) if I did it myself but I can't.

Offered merely for your consideration.

[fury9]

I've had all the old ford diesels, working on a cummins (or anything) is just something I (usually) like to do. The first thing I did to the cummins was to jump right in and do the kdp. With all the write-ups and support you can find online I think that if you have some type of mechanical ability you can and should do it.


I feel some type of gratification in knowing that I can pretty much fix my own stuff. Not to mention all the cash you save could be put towards the trans or something to make the truck even better.


You can do it don't think about it too much just get in there and do it. Just my 2c though.

[97 12-valve Cummins Power]

Originally Posted by Motorboat

97-12,
I understand completly your fears about doing it yourself. Additionally I can relate to the comfort level you feel when having someone else do the work afterall, if it screws up you can always take it back, right.

Bear in mind if you wil, l that it is always best to know how to do something. If you don't want to do it yourself. at least know how it should be done.

There is an old adage that goes something like this: "Those who can, do, those that can't, teach".

After you have read about the procedure that you are going to pay for you can ask how "they" are going to do it. If it doesn't jibe with what you have read, you will at least be lnowledgable enough to ask some questions.

Let me give you an example: I want 60lb. exhaust springs in stalled on my engine. I know how to do it but physicaly I can not due to a severe back injury. I called Cummins and asked for a quote re: estimate on the cost. Two hours later she caled back and said 4 hours labor. Thier rate is $105.00 per hour. We began to talk! I mentioned companion cylinders and it became obvious she had no idea of what I was referring to. Finally, she admitted that she went downstairs to the shop and asked an experienced mechanic his opinion and that is what she based her estimate on. He response to her was: "tell him four hours, that will keep us out of trouble". Longer story shortened, she agreed to do it for $210.00 with the caviot that I do not discuss the price with the mechanic. They pay thier mechanics by the hour and not flat rate.

I'm letting them do it next week. $210.00 is better than $420.00. It would be a lot cheaper (gaskets maybe) if I did it myself but I can't.

Offered merely for your consideration.

Great words Motorboat, very true. I appreciate what you said and heard your words carefully. I will try and do as much of this as possible. I love to know how to fix and work on things myself. Its a great feeling when you fix something yourself.

I would love to be able to tear this engine down to ever individual nut and bolt. I plan on learn exactly how to do that as fast (and carefully) as possible.

BTW- I figured out what you ment earlier when you said my queries were addressed in the beginner section (I know duh). I posted the orginal thread late at night and should have looked before posting. Sorry.

What a great resource the "Read this first/ beginner" section is!!

Thanks,

[97 12-valve Cummins Power]

Originally Posted by fury9

I've had all the old ford diesels, working on a cummins (or anything) is just something I (usually) like to do. The first thing I did to the cummins was to jump right in and do the kdp. With all the write-ups and support you can find online I think that if you have some type of mechanical ability you can and should do it.


I feel some type of gratification in knowing that I can pretty much fix my own stuff. Not to mention all the cash you save could be put towards the trans or something to make the truck even better.


You can do it don't think about it too much just get in there and do it. Just my 2c though.

Your right man, thanks. I do very much over think things, especially about my vehicles were im a little OCD and want everything to be absolutely perfect.

Maybe working on my 03 6.0L Powerstroke (insert nasty comments and laughs here) F-250 made me over think things. So so many electrical gremlins, a few times after screwing around with it I didnt even want to turn on a light bulb anymore, lol...kinda. Also, who ever designed how the 6.0L fits in the Super Duty engine compartment should be shot.. But I digress.