98.5 24 valve misfire? - Page 2

Dad · 05-06-2008, 03:36 PM

Besides level, you can also tell if you have oil in the crankcase by putting a drop on a clean paper towel. If you get a wet ring around the drip real quickly, it is fuel in the oil.

Sounds like a moot point now with the code..

__________________
High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", Aurora 3000 turbo, 5" Stacks, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune
Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

Timmay · 05-06-2008, 03:47 PM

I think the code is still there from when I replaced the pump in november.

__________________
Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

Dad · 05-06-2008, 04:09 PM

You mentioned replaceing the lift pump, or, have you also replaced the injection pump?

The 216 code is the death code for the VP44. It is a timing failure. Normally, comes on the heels of running the truck with low or no lift pump fuel pressure.

__________________
High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", Aurora 3000 turbo, 5" Stacks, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune
Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

Timmay · 05-06-2008, 04:42 PM

Yep. Sorry. The VP got replaced in november with a unit from Midwest Fuel injection. It's under warrenty so i'm not that worried about replacing it. I'd rather be sure it's the issue before sending it to them for a replacement.

__________________
Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

clc · 05-06-2008, 05:27 PM

I think it takes a scanner or a reflash to clear codes. My Superchips programmer will clear codes. It behaves a little flakily doing it but it works. It is VIN locked to my truck for prgramming but not for scanning. I have a cheap scanner from Harbor Freight that works on my wife's Isuzu but I have never hooked it to one of my Rams.

You are right. It would be a shame to send the pump off just to find out that it was something else (sensor, etc.)

__________________
96 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, DDP2, 5", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X
97 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, Injectors?, AFE, exhaust brake, gauges
98.5 2500 2WD quad cab, SB, 5-spd, 3.55, DDP2, 4", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X

Last edited by clc : 05-06-2008 at 05:29 PM.

Timmay · 05-06-2008, 06:25 PM

Agreed. I hate to just throw parts at it but I think I might order injectors, toss them in, and see what happens.

I've been wanting a set of RV275s for a while now. At the very least it'll narrow the problem to the warrentyable VP44.

__________________
Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

Timmay · 05-07-2008, 10:30 AM

Well, I got my hands on a temp gun and got some readings off the exhaust manifold. The #1 cyl was at 175-180* and the rest were at 220-230*.

Am I correct in assuming that the #1 cyl injector is stuck closed? How would that cause excess smoke...?

__________________
Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

clc · 05-08-2008, 06:32 AM

My only experience with a stuck injector was one stuck open on a Gehl skid steer. The symptoms were that it idled normally but knocked and puffed white smoke at higher power settings. I took that injector apart, cleaned it, put it back together, and all was fine again. An injector stuck open will start injecting the fuel early and at high power settings will inject too much fuel. I have not heard your engine but it seems like an injector stuck open could give you the symptoms you are having. I suppose a damaged nozzle could as well. My line of thinking does not exclude a VP44 problem but cleaning/replacing an injector would be much cheaper and easier to do. I hate to mention it but it is possible that an injector is stuck open because trash coming through the VP44 (like metal filings from a mechanically failing VP44). I would be inclined to play with the injector first. If you swapped injectors with another cylinder and the cold exhaust port moves with the injector you would know it was the injector. If the cold cylinder does follow the injector then it is either the VP44 or a compression problem. With the right gauges you can check the compression in all cylinders through the injector ports (injectors removed).

__________________
96 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, DDP2, 5", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X
97 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, Injectors?, AFE, exhaust brake, gauges
98.5 2500 2WD quad cab, SB, 5-spd, 3.55, DDP2, 4", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X

Timmay · 05-08-2008, 06:48 AM

It seems to run fine. It's odd. If I turn the power up at all on the Edge is very obvious under load. It'll buck and smoke a ton. With the Edge off, it runs normal as long as i'm not getting on it. I can definitly tell it's missing some but it doesn't sound like it's going to explode like it does with the Edge on.

__________________
Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

Timmay · 05-08-2008, 05:49 PM

Well this isn't cool. I installed the new injectors. Still the same problem. Any other ideas?

__________________
Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

clc · 05-09-2008, 07:25 AM

If the first cylinder is still running cold that leaves a compression problem or a VP44 problem.

Knowing the input pressure to the VP44 while under load is always a good piece of information.

__________________
96 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, DDP2, 5", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X
97 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, Injectors?, AFE, exhaust brake, gauges
98.5 2500 2WD quad cab, SB, 5-spd, 3.55, DDP2, 4", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X

Timmay · 05-09-2008, 07:45 AM

I don't have access to a temp gun right now so I can't check temps.

The input pressure of the VP should be my fuel pressure gauge correct? It's on the output of the fuel filter. FWIW, it's higher than usual. On the highway it's usually about 14 with the cruise set. Yesterday on the way home it was sitting at 16ish.

I think the VP might not be pumping as much as usual then. Any thoughts? I need to have a friend come over with a scanner and clear the codes.

__________________
Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

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05-06-2008, 03:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
Dad Administrator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,679 Dad's Truck Pics	Besides level, you can also tell if you have oil in the crankcase by putting a drop on a clean paper towel. If you get a wet ring around the drip real quickly, it is fuel in the oil. Sounds like a moot point now with the code.. __________________ High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", Aurora 3000 turbo, 5" Stacks, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

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05-06-2008, 03:47 PM	#14 (permalink)
Timmay Cummins Fan Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 82 Timmay's Truck Pics	I think the code is still there from when I replaced the pump in november. __________________ Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

05-06-2008, 04:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
Dad Administrator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,679 Dad's Truck Pics	You mentioned replaceing the lift pump, or, have you also replaced the injection pump? The 216 code is the death code for the VP44. It is a timing failure. Normally, comes on the heels of running the truck with low or no lift pump fuel pressure. __________________ High Rider: 98.5 Ram 2500 4x4, 5 Spd, SB 13", Aurora 3000 turbo, 5" Stacks, AEM Intake, Gauges, FASS95, S-Chips Tune Low Rider: '06 Chevy 1/2 Ton, Victory Red, 2/4 Drop, roll pan, sport mirrors, rollin on 20's

05-06-2008, 04:42 PM	#16 (permalink)
Timmay Cummins Fan Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 82 Timmay's Truck Pics	Yep. Sorry. The VP got replaced in november with a unit from Midwest Fuel injection. It's under warrenty so i'm not that worried about replacing it. I'd rather be sure it's the issue before sending it to them for a replacement. __________________ Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

05-06-2008, 05:27 PM	#17 (permalink)
clc Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 144 clc's Truck Pics	I think it takes a scanner or a reflash to clear codes. My Superchips programmer will clear codes. It behaves a little flakily doing it but it works. It is VIN locked to my truck for prgramming but not for scanning. I have a cheap scanner from Harbor Freight that works on my wife's Isuzu but I have never hooked it to one of my Rams. You are right. It would be a shame to send the pump off just to find out that it was something else (sensor, etc.) __________________ 96 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, DDP2, 5", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X 97 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, Injectors?, AFE, exhaust brake, gauges 98.5 2500 2WD quad cab, SB, 5-spd, 3.55, DDP2, 4", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X Last edited by clc : 05-06-2008 at 05:29 PM.

05-06-2008, 06:25 PM	#18 (permalink)
Timmay Cummins Fan Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 82 Timmay's Truck Pics	Agreed. I hate to just throw parts at it but I think I might order injectors, toss them in, and see what happens. I've been wanting a set of RV275s for a while now. At the very least it'll narrow the problem to the warrentyable VP44. __________________ Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

05-07-2008, 10:30 AM	#19 (permalink)
Timmay Cummins Fan Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 82 Timmay's Truck Pics	Well, I got my hands on a temp gun and got some readings off the exhaust manifold. The #1 cyl was at 175-180* and the rest were at 220-230*. Am I correct in assuming that the #1 cyl injector is stuck closed? How would that cause excess smoke...? __________________ Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

05-08-2008, 06:32 AM	#20 (permalink)
clc Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 144 clc's Truck Pics	My only experience with a stuck injector was one stuck open on a Gehl skid steer. The symptoms were that it idled normally but knocked and puffed white smoke at higher power settings. I took that injector apart, cleaned it, put it back together, and all was fine again. An injector stuck open will start injecting the fuel early and at high power settings will inject too much fuel. I have not heard your engine but it seems like an injector stuck open could give you the symptoms you are having. I suppose a damaged nozzle could as well. My line of thinking does not exclude a VP44 problem but cleaning/replacing an injector would be much cheaper and easier to do. I hate to mention it but it is possible that an injector is stuck open because trash coming through the VP44 (like metal filings from a mechanically failing VP44). I would be inclined to play with the injector first. If you swapped injectors with another cylinder and the cold exhaust port moves with the injector you would know it was the injector. If the cold cylinder does follow the injector then it is either the VP44 or a compression problem. With the right gauges you can check the compression in all cylinders through the injector ports (injectors removed). __________________ 96 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, DDP2, 5", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X 97 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, Injectors?, AFE, exhaust brake, gauges 98.5 2500 2WD quad cab, SB, 5-spd, 3.55, DDP2, 4", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X

05-08-2008, 06:48 AM	#21 (permalink)
Timmay Cummins Fan Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 82 Timmay's Truck Pics	It seems to run fine. It's odd. If I turn the power up at all on the Edge is very obvious under load. It'll buck and smoke a ton. With the Edge off, it runs normal as long as i'm not getting on it. I can definitly tell it's missing some but it doesn't sound like it's going to explode like it does with the Edge on. __________________ Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

05-08-2008, 05:49 PM	#22 (permalink)
Timmay Cummins Fan Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 82 Timmay's Truck Pics	Well this isn't cool. I installed the new injectors. Still the same problem. Any other ideas? __________________ Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.

05-09-2008, 07:25 AM	#23 (permalink)
clc Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 144 clc's Truck Pics	If the first cylinder is still running cold that leaves a compression problem or a VP44 problem. Knowing the input pressure to the VP44 while under load is always a good piece of information. __________________ 96 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, DDP2, 5", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X 97 3500 4WD club cab, 47RE, Injectors?, AFE, exhaust brake, gauges 98.5 2500 2WD quad cab, SB, 5-spd, 3.55, DDP2, 4", FASS, DSS, gauges, Line-X

05-09-2008, 07:45 AM	#24 (permalink)
Timmay Cummins Fan Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 82 Timmay's Truck Pics	I don't have access to a temp gun right now so I can't check temps. The input pressure of the VP should be my fuel pressure gauge correct? It's on the output of the fuel filter. FWIW, it's higher than usual. On the highway it's usually about 14 with the cruise set. Yesterday on the way home it was sitting at 16ish. I think the VP might not be pumping as much as usual then. Any thoughts? I need to have a friend come over with a scanner and clear the codes. __________________ Tow rig/DD: '98.5 2500 24valve, NV4500 swapped behind a 13" SBC Con "O", 4.10s, 315/70R17 MTZs on 3rd gen alloys, Edge Juice w/Attitude, BHAF, 4" MBRP etc etc.