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Old 07-11-2007, 08:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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47RE woes. Anyone have any ideas?

98.5 2500 24 valve

47RE trans (If I recall correctly...)

I picked this truck up last wednesday. The previous owner (close friend of mine, so he's not BSing me) got it in January and put 7k miles on it until he handed it over to me. I drove the truck a few times since Jan and it ran like it should, as far as I could tell. I didn't drive it all that much.

The origional owner (my buddy got the truck from him) had the trans replaced at 187k. There's now 196k on the truck, and it's giving me some issues.


Here's my problem areas:

Sometimes starting out from a stop it will slip, acting like it's in neutral. If I let off and try again it pulls away like normal.

Every once in a while it will shift to second and immediatly slip like it shifted from first to neutral. Again, if I let off and go again it pulls like normal.

When I first start the truck it has no warning lights. After I get to 35-40 or so when the torque converter locks up, I immediatly get a ABS and BRAKE idiot light. They stay there until I shut the truck down and start it again. Everytime I go somewhere, the first time the TC locks those lights pop up. Also, If I try to use cruise control and the ABS/BRAKE lights are on, it won't work. The cruise indicator comes on but the truck wont hold a speed after pressing the set button.



Now, before those idiot lights started coming on, I had a rear brake light fuse blow. At first I thought it was the brake light switch on the brake pedal since i've replaced them before. I replaced that and the lights still didn't work, but I started getting the idiot lights. Checked the fuse and whatya know, it was blown. When I replaced the fuse the lights work, but I still get the ABS and BRAKE light everytime I drive it as soon as the TC locks up for the first time.

The only mods to the truck is a pulled silencer ring and the BHAF. I have a MBRP exhaust sitting in the garage but i'd like to get this trans figured out.


Anybody have any idea what in the hell could possibly be wrong? I have some plans for a little more power (edge juice with attitude) so if the tranny is junk i'd like to try and get a little refund from the trans shop to put towards a Goerand. :thumbsup

Thanks for the help.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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HYDRAULIC PRESSURE TEST
Hydraulic test pressures range from a low of one psi (6.895 kPa) governor pressure, to 300 psi (2068 kPa) at the rear servo pressure port in reverse.

An accurate tachometer and pressure test gauges are required. Test Gauge C-3292 has a 100 psi range and is used at the accumulator, governor, and front servo ports. Test Gauge C-3293-SP has a 300 psi range and is used at the rear servo and overdrive ports where pressures exceed 100 psi.

Pressure Test Port Locations
Test ports are located at both sides of the transmission case

Line pressure is checked at the accumulator port on the right side of the case. The front servo pressure port is at the right side of the case just behind the filler tube opening.

The rear servo and governor pressure ports are at the right rear of the transmission case. The overdrive clutch pressure port is at the left rear of the case.


Pressure Test Port Locations

.
Test One - Transmission In Manual Low
NOTE: This test checks pump output, pressure regulation, and condition of the rear clutch and servo circuit. Both test gauges are required for this test.

Connect tachometer to engine. Position tachometer so it can be observed from driver seat if helper will be operating engine. Raise vehicle on hoist that will allow rear wheels to rotate freely.
Connect 100 psi Gauge C-3292 to accumulator port. Then connect 300 psi Gauge C-3293-SP to rear servo port.
Disconnect throttle and gearshift cables from levers on transmission valve body manual shaft.
Have helper start and run engine at 1000 rpm.
Move transmission shift lever fully forward into 1 range.
Gradually move transmission throttle lever from full forward to full rearward position and note pressures on both gauges:
Line pressure at accumulator port should be 54-60 psi (372-414 kPa) with throttle lever forward and gradually increase to 90-96 psi (621-662 kPa) as throttle lever is moved rearward.
Rear servo pressure should be same as line pressure within 3 psi (20.68 kPa)
Test Two - Transmission In 2 Range
NOTE: This test checks pump output, line pressure and pressure regulation. Use 100 psi Test Gauge C-3292 for this test.

Leave vehicle in place on hoist and leave Test Gauge C-3292 connected to accumulator port.
Have helper start and run engine at 1000 rpm.
Move transmission shift lever one detent rearward from full forward position. This is 2 range.
Move transmission throttle lever from full forward to full rearward position and read pressure on gauge.
Line pressure should be 54-60 psi (372-414 kPa) with throttle lever forward and gradually increase to 90-96 psi (621-662 kPa) as lever is moved rearward.
Test Three - Transmission In D Range Third Gear
NOTE: This test checks pressure regulation and condition of the clutch circuits. Both test gauges are required for this test.

Turn OD switch off.
Leave vehicle on hoist and leave Gauge C-3292 in place at accumulator port.
Move Gauge C-3293-SP over to front servo port for this test.
Have helper start and run engine at 1600 rpm for this test.
Move transmission shift lever two detents rearward from full forward position. This is D range.
Read pressures on both gauges as transmission throttle lever is gradually moved from full forward to full rearward position:
Line pressure at accumulator in D range third gear, should be 54-60 psi (372-414 kPa) with throttle lever forward and increase as lever is moved rearward.
Front servo pressure in D range third gear, should be within 3 psi (21 kPa) of line pressure up to kickdown point.
Test Four - Transmission In Reverse
NOTE: This test checks pump output, pressure regulation and the front clutch and rear servo circuits. Use 300 psi Test Gauge C-3293-SP for this test.

Leave vehicle on hoist and leave gauge C3292 in place at accumulator port.
Move 300 psi Gauge C-3293-SP back to rear servo port.
Have helper start and run engine at 1600 rpm for test.
Move transmission shift lever four detents rearward from full forward position. This is Reverse range.
Move transmission throttle lever fully forward then fully rearward and note reading at Gauge C-3293-SP.
Pressure should be 145 - 175 psi (1000-1207 kPa) with throttle lever forward and increase to 230 - 280 psi (1586-1931 kPa) as lever is gradually moved rearward.
Test Five - Governor Pressure
NOTE: This test checks governor operation by measuring governor pressure response to changes in vehicle speed. It is usually not necessary to check governor operation unless shift speeds are incorrect or if the transmission will not downshift. The test should be performed on the road or on a hoist that will allow the rear wheels to rotate freely.

Move 100 psi Test Gauge C-3292 to governor pressure port.
Move transmission shift lever two detents rearward from full forward position. This is D range.
Have helper start and run engine at curb idle speed. Then firmly apply service brakes so wheels will not rotate.
Note governor pressure:
Governor pressure should be no more than 20.6 kPa (3 psi) at curb idle speed and wheels not rotating.
If pressure exceeds 20.6 kPa (3 psi), a fault exists in governor pressure control system.
Release brakes, slowly increase engine speed, and observe speedometer and pressure test gauge (do not exceed 30 mph on speedometer) Governor pressure should increase in proportion to vehicle speed. Or approximately 6.89 kPa (1 psi) for every 1 mph.
Governor pressure rise should be smooth and drop back to no more than 20.6 kPa (3 psi), after engine returns to curb idle and brakes are applied to prevent wheels from rotating.
Compare results of pressure test with analysis chart.
Test Six - Transmission In Overdrive Fourth Gear
NOTE: This test checks line pressure at the overdrive clutch in fourth gear range. Use 300 psi Test Gauge C-3292 for this test. The test should be performed on the road or on a chassis dyno.

Remove tachometer; it is not needed for this test.
Move 300 psi Gauge to overdrive clutch pressure test port. Then remove other gauge and reinstall test port plug.
Lower vehicle.
Turn OD switch on.
Secure test gauge so it can be viewed from drivers seat.
Start engine and shift into D range.
Increase vehicle speed gradually until 3-4 shift occurs and note gauge pressure.
Pressure should be 469-496 kPa (68-72 psi) with closed throttle and increase to 620-827 kPa (90-120 psi) at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. Note that pressure can increase to around 896 kPa (130 psi) at full throttle.
Return to shop or move vehicle off chassis dyno.
PRESSURE TEST ANALYSIS CHART
TEST CONDITION INDICATION
Line pressure OK during any one test Pump and regulator valve OK
Line pressure OK in R but low in D, 2, 1 Leakage in rear clutch area (seal rings, clutch seals)
Pressure low in D Fourth Gear Range Overdrive clutch piston seal, or check ball problem
Pressure OK in 1, 2 but low in D3 and R Leakage in front clutch area
Pressure OK in 2 but low in R and 1 Leakage in rear servo
Front servo pressure low in 2 Leakage in servo; broken servo ring or cracked servo piston
Pressure low in all positions Clogged filter, stuck regulator valve, worn or faulty pump, low oil level
Governor pressure too high at idle speed Governor pressure solenoid valve system fault. Refer to diagnostic book.
Governor pressure low at all mph figures Faulty governor pressure solenoid, transmission control module, or governor pressure sensor
Lubrication pressure low at all throttle positions Clogged fluid cooler or lines, seal rings leaking, worn pump bushings, pump, clutch retainer, or clogged filter.
Line pressure high Output shaft plugged, sticky regulator valve
Line pressure low Sticky regulator valve, clogged filter, worn pump


copied from my trans diag notes, this is the pressure testing procedure from chrysler, didn't feel like para-phrasing. copyrighted by law.:fist:
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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47RE woes.  Anyone have any ideas?-80036448.jpg






this is the test port layout.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Sounds like a electrical problem to me. The basic transmission works, it has all the gears the just do not apply all the time. I would look at the idiot light/lock up issue first. Check all the grounds first. If you have a local autozone I think you can get a wire diagram there, it would be a big help.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks IsbEinside, i'll keep that in mind if the time comes. Seems simple enough.

I too think it's an electrical problem.

I forgot to mention that I had a friend run the codes while we were driving. The only thing that came back was an overboost code, which is pretty normal from what i've read here. It had nothing about the ABS/BRAKE lights.
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Okay, this is wierd...

I had to run to the steel yard (40 minutes away) to get some material today.

When I first started it to head down there, no lights as usual. I hit 40mph and the TC locked up for the first time. I looked down waiting for the lights to pop up and they never did.

I got all the way to Wendy's at 60+ mph with the TC locking and unlocking normally, trans shifting perfect. When placing my order I always shut the engine down since it's nice and loud. I did that as usual, and fired it up again. Once I got back on the road and the TC locked up, the ABS and BRAKE light came on just like before, and the trans started shifting sloppy and "slipping" randomly.

When I got to the steel yard I shut it down, did what I had to, and headed home. On the way home, all 40 minutes, it ran perfect, shifted nice and smooth and on time. I tried to get on it from a stop and the 1-2 shift was about 200 rpm from redline, like it's supposed to be. All the shifts were smooth and it was generally working the way it's supposed to.

I have to run to the inspection station a little later so i'll see what it does then. It seems like a bad ground now since it's intermittant like that. Whatever it is, i'm thinking it's definatly electrical.

Anyone have anymore input? What about the sensors on the valve body? Maybe the trans shop reused the old ones on the new trans and they are just worn out? I don't know what they do anyway so any help would be appreciated.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If it was just a transmission problem then I would lean toward the transmission sensors and selonoids first, but this is also involving dash lights so I still would lean to a ground problem first. You could hook up a scan tool and a preasure guage and check preasure like isbEinside said. I think you will have a line preasure issue when it acts up, but I still think it is a ground or PCM problem.
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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well the output sensor and the rear diff sensor are inputs for the abs system, you need to get a scanner, and check modules!

the tranny has a govenor soleniod, od, and tcc soleniod. if the output shaft speed sensor starts going out you can have some trans issues, but remember for the most part this tranny is still 95% hydrolic and 5% electronic.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hey just a thought i have had the same issue with my truck and it wasnt driven that much. i also mainly had the problem wen it was hot. though i didnt have the tach or electrical problem. i changed the tranny fluid and found that it had collapsed the ridges in the tranny filter and the bottom of the pan was filled with the burnt up ridges. i put new filter and fluid in with a quart of lucas stop slip and i have not had the problem since then.
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