In frame main bearing replacement - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
- HOME - FORUMS - GARAGE - TECH - ARTICLES - CHAT - CLASSIFIEDS - REVIEWS - VIDEOS - MEMBER MAP - STORE - INSURANCE -
- REGISTER - CALENDAR - INFO - SITE HELP - RULES - STAFF - MEMBERSHIP - ADVERTISE - CONTACT US -


Welcome to the Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum, the fastest growing Dodge Diesel Community on the internet.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us
Go Back   Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum > 1st Gen. Dodge Cummins 89-93 12V Forums > 89-93 Powertrain
89-93 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

CumminsForum.com is the premier Dodge Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.

Auto Insurance

» Featured Product
Wheel & Tire Center

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-28-2012, 01:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
Newbie
 
bwgarrett56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bend Oregon
Posts: 27
Thanks: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
In frame main bearing replacement

Can main bearings be replaced with the engine in the frame ?
I already have the pan off, engine jacked up. I think I can get to all of them for removal, but I'm worried that I won't be able to get them torqued from under the truck. Can't find anything on the forums to address this issue.
Any advise would be appreciated.
__________________
1990 LE250,automatic,reg cab,nice paint
bwgarrett56 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-28-2012, 09:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
Diesel Head
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kamloops B.C.
Posts: 1,862
Thanks: 0
Thanked 258 Times in 226 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwgarrett56 View Post
Can main bearings be replaced with the engine in the frame ?
I already have the pan off, engine jacked up. I think I can get to all of them for removal, but I'm worried that I won't be able to get them torqued from under the truck. Can't find anything on the forums to address this issue.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Not sure I'm following. If you can get them loose to replace them why wouldn't you be able to tighten them?

Steve g
__________________
91 D-250 LE Bone stock so far 615,000 kms and everything working just like the factory intended with no POTS, pans, string, jumper wires or ball point pen springs.
Steve g is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2012, 09:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Carrnutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 263
Thanks: 8
Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve g View Post
Not sure I'm following. If you can get them loose to replace them why wouldn't you be able to tighten them?

Steve g
Well if you have to use swivels and the such, the torque won't be accurate.
__________________
'93 Dually 5 spd, Str8 pipe, gauges, LED dash, BHAF
'03 3500 DRW Laramie 5.9 SO, 48RE Auto, 4.10 Rear
Carrnutt is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2012, 10:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
Newbie
 
bwgarrett56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bend Oregon
Posts: 27
Thanks: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve g View Post
Not sure I'm following. If you can get them loose to replace them why wouldn't you be able to tighten them?

Steve g
Thanks Steve g
Yes I think I can get them all off but it looks like it might be tough with just a torque wrench on the assembly. I was hoping for any info from someone who has done this before. I am just a little worried about tackling this with the engine in the frame. I want accurate torque results.
__________________
1990 LE250,automatic,reg cab,nice paint
bwgarrett56 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2012, 10:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
Diesel Head
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kamloops B.C.
Posts: 1,862
Thanks: 0
Thanked 258 Times in 226 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwgarrett56 View Post
Thanks Steve g
Yes I think I can get them all off but it looks like it might be tough with just a torque wrench on the assembly. I was hoping for any info from someone who has done this before. I am just a little worried about tackling this with the engine in the frame. I want accurate torque results.
Torque values generally have a range of 10 to 15%, it's not that critical as long as you're in the range. Using a short socket is preferable, but it won't be a problem if you have to use a universal anyways. The torque will change very little through a universal joint. It's done all the time.

Steve g
__________________
91 D-250 LE Bone stock so far 615,000 kms and everything working just like the factory intended with no POTS, pans, string, jumper wires or ball point pen springs.
Steve g is offline   Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Steve g For This Useful Post:
bwgarrett56 (02-28-2012)
Old 02-28-2012, 10:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
Newbie
 
bwgarrett56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bend Oregon
Posts: 27
Thanks: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve g View Post
Torque values generally have a range of 10 to 15%, it's not that critical as long as you're in the range. Using a short socket is preferable, but it won't be a problem if you have to use a universal anyways. The torque will change very little through a universal joint. It's done all the time.

Steve g
I havn't checked every bolt location for tool clearance but I will just have to dive into it. Got to get it done somehow.
__________________
1990 LE250,automatic,reg cab,nice paint
bwgarrett56 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 02-29-2012, 12:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Carrnutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 263
Thanks: 8
Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Not to be a buster or anything, but, when it comes to internal engine torque specs. I am more apt to be as precise as possible. Now, something like mounting bolts for A/C, or front cover, pump, etc. I would have a lesser issue doing by feel, or even guessing.

Manufacturer specified torque for main caps is 129 ft. lbs. With +/- 10% would make the range from 116 up to 142 ft. lbs. and at +/-15%, from 109 up to 148 ft. lbs. I would be very uncomfortable with that big a discrepancy on my engine's main caps.

The length from the pivot point is the main effect on torque, so straight extensions, albeit, the shorter the better, affect it minimally, depending on the material of the extension, due to flex, and as long as they are held as close to 90* as possible.

However, universals and / or swivels have a serious effect on and make for very inconsistent torques, at least in my experience. I think it can be exponentially worse, considering the torque sequence recommended is in 3 stages, 45, 88, 129.

There are several reasons;

1. the actual "twist" in the swivel, the wrench will still click where you set it, however an amount of that torque will not be applied to the bolt / nut. So the wrench clicks at 129, but torque applied to the bolt / nut is closer to 110.

2. how steep the angle is may actually multiply the torque that the wrench "senses", thereby reducing the actual torque applied to the bolt / nut. (same affect as above).

3. length of distance between swivel and bolt if placed at end of wrench before any extension, or wrench if placed at the end of any extension, can place the pivot a significant distance from the wrench's calibrated point. Thereby multiplying the torque applied to the bolt. So the wrench clicks at 129, but torque at the bolt / nut could be closer to 150.


Now if we figure in the +/- 10% allowed tolerance, that can add up to a MetricCrapTon of difference.


After all that being said... you probably won't have any problems. The potential is there, and I wouldn't be doing it, unless I was unloading the truck.

But I fall back on the old saying, just because something is made, sold, used or done all the time, doesn't make it correct nor necessary.



THE ABOVE IS ENTIRELY MY OPINION. BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION I HAVE ACQUIRED.
__________________
'93 Dually 5 spd, Str8 pipe, gauges, LED dash, BHAF
'03 3500 DRW Laramie 5.9 SO, 48RE Auto, 4.10 Rear

Last edited by Carrnutt; 02-29-2012 at 12:12 AM.
Carrnutt is offline   Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Carrnutt For This Useful Post:
bwgarrett56 (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 12:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
Newbie
 
bwgarrett56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bend Oregon
Posts: 27
Thanks: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Thanks Carrnut,
Now I'm really feeling uneasy about this project.
I will be under that engine tomorrow to check every bolt for torque wrench clearance.
My other big issue is am I going to be able to pull the wrench 130# ??
Never torqued anything that much before
__________________
1990 LE250,automatic,reg cab,nice paint
bwgarrett56 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 02-29-2012, 12:44 AM   #9 (permalink)
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Carrnutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 263
Thanks: 8
Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Sorry to make you uneasy, like I said odds are you won't have an issue. A 1/2 inch torque wrench shouldn't be too bad.

Umm... you're really gonna hate me now...

I was just looking at this in alldata and the crank weighs 123lb (55.3kg)

__________________
'93 Dually 5 spd, Str8 pipe, gauges, LED dash, BHAF
'03 3500 DRW Laramie 5.9 SO, 48RE Auto, 4.10 Rear
Carrnutt is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 02-29-2012, 01:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
Newbie
 
bwgarrett56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bend Oregon
Posts: 27
Thanks: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I don't intend to remove the crank ??
with all due respect and no offense, " what were you thinking"
__________________
1990 LE250,automatic,reg cab,nice paint
bwgarrett56 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 02-29-2012, 01:15 AM   #11 (permalink)
Diesel Head
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kamloops B.C.
Posts: 1,862
Thanks: 0
Thanked 258 Times in 226 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrnutt View Post
Not to be a buster or anything, but, when it comes to internal engine torque specs. I am more apt to be as precise as possible. Now, something like mounting bolts for A/C, or front cover, pump, etc. I would have a lesser issue doing by feel, or even guessing.

Manufacturer specified torque for main caps is 129 ft. lbs. With +/- 10% would make the range from 116 up to 142 ft. lbs. and at +/-15%, from 109 up to 148 ft. lbs. I would be very uncomfortable with that big a discrepancy on my engine's main caps.

The length from the pivot point is the main effect on torque, so straight extensions, albeit, the shorter the better, affect it minimally, depending on the material of the extension, due to flex, and as long as they are held as close to 90* as possible.

However, universals and / or swivels have a serious effect on and make for very inconsistent torques, at least in my experience. I think it can be exponentially worse, considering the torque sequence recommended is in 3 stages, 45, 88, 129.

There are several reasons;

1. the actual "twist" in the swivel, the wrench will still click where you set it, however an amount of that torque will not be applied to the bolt / nut. So the wrench clicks at 129, but torque applied to the bolt / nut is closer to 110.

2. how steep the angle is may actually multiply the torque that the wrench "senses", thereby reducing the actual torque applied to the bolt / nut. (same affect as above).

3. length of distance between swivel and bolt if placed at end of wrench before any extension, or wrench if placed at the end of any extension, can place the pivot a significant distance from the wrench's calibrated point. Thereby multiplying the torque applied to the bolt. So the wrench clicks at 129, but torque at the bolt / nut could be closer to 150.


Now if we figure in the +/- 10% allowed tolerance, that can add up to a MetricCrapTon of difference.


After all that being said... you probably won't have any problems. The potential is there, and I wouldn't be doing it, unless I was unloading the truck.

But I fall back on the old saying, just because something is made, sold, used or done all the time, doesn't make it correct nor necessary.



THE ABOVE IS ENTIRELY MY OPINION. BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION I HAVE ACQUIRED.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. There is no loss of torque from a twisting extension. Whatever torque you put in on one end is what comes out the other end. The shaft will twist and as long as it doesn't break at the point it stops twisting it then transfers the torque through to the other end. Google it. I did.

The u-joint will cause a plus, then a minus reading, but is very much dependant on the angle. What I've read says that if you have under 15* of angle you simply disregard it all together. There is even plenty of argument on the engineering forums about even that. Of course if you try to go through too sharp an angle it will bind up, but that's something different all together. And that would be in a cardon style universal. If you are using the pin and ball type used with impact sockets the change is even less.

Cummins is a little more specific about their torque specs. Most engine manufacturers you will see it written as something like 95-105. On those if you take the centre you will be perfectly fine.

I would always attempt to not use a universal and adding extensions with flex, while not making it less accurate, make it more work. You have to pull your torque wrench a lot further through this spongy area. I will use a 3/4" drive extension reduced to 1/2 if I have to use an extension for that reason.

I've been a journeyman doing this for a little short of 40 years and have never had an issue where I've had to use a swivel. And I use extensions all the time.

On a different, but related point, Cummins does some things a quite different, and I have to wonder why. I have never seen an engine that req'd the mains to be tightened in stages and in sequence (other than snugging them all down to ensure they're seated). What is the point of that. The caps fit flush against the block. The only crush is the slight bearing crush to seat the shells. It's not like a head gasket or an intake where clamping force needs to be even and force the gasket into position. It doesn't matter how much you tighten a main, it doesn't get any closer to the crank. The bolt torque has only to do with removing the stretch and reaching the point it won't come loose. Block distortion during tightening? You wouldn't think so in so heavy a block. I do lots of diesels, mostly ag and have done gas engines forever and have never come across that. Engines that use torque to yield bolts will do stages, but that it just to get you to the point of bolt stretch.

Steve g
__________________
91 D-250 LE Bone stock so far 615,000 kms and everything working just like the factory intended with no POTS, pans, string, jumper wires or ball point pen springs.
Steve g is offline   Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Steve g For This Useful Post:
nlneilson (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 02:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Carrnutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 263
Thanks: 8
Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwgarrett56 View Post
I don't intend to remove the crank ??
with all due respect and no offense, " what were you thinking"
LOL, indeed.

The first pic link as well as my comment about the sequence being hard to see in the pic, got missed when I cut / pasted.

__________________
'93 Dually 5 spd, Str8 pipe, gauges, LED dash, BHAF
'03 3500 DRW Laramie 5.9 SO, 48RE Auto, 4.10 Rear
Carrnutt is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2