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Go Back   Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum > 1st Gen. Dodge Cummins 89-93 12V Forums > 89-93 Powertrain
89-93 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

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Old 10-31-2006, 11:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Timing check?

Hi all

I have read the shop manual for our motors (89-93) and am unsure of one point on VE timing.

It would appear the motor has a pin for top dead center, and if i am readin the shop book right, the injection pump also has a lock pin? And when replacing a ip pump, that with the motor locked, and the pump locked, you then tighten down the nut on the pump gear, keeping everything aligned.

If so and if the timing were bang on would the ability to lock in both pins at the same time now, guarantee that the alignment and stock timing are correct (+/- a degree for gear wear) ?

Would this be the quick n dirty method of timing check i have been looking for?

If they are not in alignment would that then be an indication that the timing slipped, meaning the pump shaft n gear were not seated properly or tight enough when the ip pump was changed out?

I have ordered a timing guage, for tweaking (timing advance) as well so I know exactly what timing in degrees is, after playing. ($55.US)

What is the maximum timing for one of these motors for performance without damaging the motor? I have read from 14-16, and in other places all the way to 18-20 degrees.

Once again thanx in advance for your help
Ken
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well, I know the timing pin can be off as much as 2.5 degrees, thats how far mine was off. I had a pump shop pull the pump and run the piston to top dead center using a degree wheel on the crank then check the pin location. It was off 2.5 degrees.

Others have reported 1-2 degrees.

As far as timing, I'm at 22 degrees right now but that much advance can cause some smoke due to the spray angle of the injectors and the spray missing the oiston bowl and getting on the cylinder walls. Engine also sounds a little "harsh". I put in a set of Lenny's stage three's that have a steeper spray angle to keep the pattern in the piston bowl but that cost me some mileage. Helped with the smoke but hurt the mileage. I'm going to pull back to 18 degrees and go with a "standard" spray angle injector to see if the mileage will come back up. (the best thing I can do is quit "checking" my max boost in every day driving! LOL)
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93 D250, PDR Twins HX35&HT3B, 60+# boost,PDR stage 2 head w/o-rings, PDR Cam, modified VE Pump, piston style lift pump, modified 5" intake w/AFE, ATS ported manifold,DTT 89% converter, 4" RIP exhaust, modified tranny, EGT/boost/tranny/tach gauges, TPS removed, a little chrome under the hood. Mag-Hitec tranny and diff. covers. Rear sway bar. Line-x bed liner, after market seats. Single stage Water/Meth system installed. Oversized intercooler w/3" IC lines.

05 Chevy 2500 HDcrew cab 4x4, Duramax W/Allison, 17" Hummer wheels w/285-70-17 BFG's, Banks intake, ported turbo mouthpiece. Predator programmer, Autometer EGT and boost gauges.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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hmm

I can live with bein out a degree or two.

I just need to know if my assumption about the two pins is correct? If they will lock at the same time, does that mean the motor is essentially in stock time and I can then move on to looking for other issues that may be causin the power loss, such as those you (Mr. Pacool) have suggested for me.

Thanx again
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ken,
I honestly don't know if they will lock together. I think they will but not sure. Greenleaf is the one to answer that question. I'll see if I can get him over here to answer the question.
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93 D250, PDR Twins HX35&HT3B, 60+# boost,PDR stage 2 head w/o-rings, PDR Cam, modified VE Pump, piston style lift pump, modified 5" intake w/AFE, ATS ported manifold,DTT 89% converter, 4" RIP exhaust, modified tranny, EGT/boost/tranny/tach gauges, TPS removed, a little chrome under the hood. Mag-Hitec tranny and diff. covers. Rear sway bar. Line-x bed liner, after market seats. Single stage Water/Meth system installed. Oversized intercooler w/3" IC lines.

05 Chevy 2500 HDcrew cab 4x4, Duramax W/Allison, 17" Hummer wheels w/285-70-17 BFG's, Banks intake, ported turbo mouthpiece. Predator programmer, Autometer EGT and boost gauges.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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awesome

and thanx again for your efforts. Might I know your name so adressing you is easier?
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's in my signature
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93 D250, PDR Twins HX35&HT3B, 60+# boost,PDR stage 2 head w/o-rings, PDR Cam, modified VE Pump, piston style lift pump, modified 5" intake w/AFE, ATS ported manifold,DTT 89% converter, 4" RIP exhaust, modified tranny, EGT/boost/tranny/tach gauges, TPS removed, a little chrome under the hood. Mag-Hitec tranny and diff. covers. Rear sway bar. Line-x bed liner, after market seats. Single stage Water/Meth system installed. Oversized intercooler w/3" IC lines.

05 Chevy 2500 HDcrew cab 4x4, Duramax W/Allison, 17" Hummer wheels w/285-70-17 BFG's, Banks intake, ported turbo mouthpiece. Predator programmer, Autometer EGT and boost gauges.
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Old 10-31-2006, 02:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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thanx Stan

nice to formally meet you so to speak.
Ken
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Back at ya sir!

Stan
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Old 11-01-2006, 03:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Sorry..........

I was uh..........busy..........uh............with somethin'................. LOL

Now what was the question?

I gotta tell you....this guy over on another forum couldn't get this fuel hose off, so he pulled and pulled.................then, BAM!!! Skinned the hide off his hand:thumbsup

I won't mention his name but his initials are JLEONARD

So, the pump stuff....you are thinking on the lines of the P-Pump engines. Ours will have the same engine TDC pin but the locking device is a BOLT not a pin. Just turn the bolt head in (after removing the thick washer behind it) untill the bolt is snug. This locks the pump to the timing position.

OR

Don't worry about the pump cuz she is KEYED to the engine so it will only go on ONE WAY and there are factcory timing marks on the pump and case unless the pump is new which case the pump "may" have no mark.

To set the timing you make for certain the engine is at true TDC (couple of ways to do this) then install the timing GAUGE onto the back of said pump and set that thing to what ever you like. One full turn of the gauge needle is 0.5mm 1.7mm is pretty steep advance but will work. You are looking @ 1.25 to 1.40mm lift for OEM depending on the CPL Number of engine.

Read through the service manual or operastors manual for the 5.9L ENGINE for instruction on the useage of the dial gauge.
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I just got one of these trucks, a 97. How many degrees is stock timing set at? I'd like to advance it as far as possible for better mileage, while still not going beyond realiability for the engine.
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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A '97 is a whole other beast that what's being discussed in this thread.


The locking bolt on the pump will lock the pump in whatever position it is in when the bolt is screwed in, right?

Just watching for overlap on my engine was always way more precise than the engine timing pin, although it took me a year or so to figure out that my timing pin was sheared off, so that doesn't help it's accuracy very much...
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