New to 1st gens, help me build a tow rig.

wild84 · 11-06-2009, 05:13 PM

I'm looking at a 91.5 3/4ton, 2wd, 5 speed. I need to be able to pull my 34' gooseneck with both mine, and the wife's race cars on it. I figure the truck, trailer, and both cars would weigh in at about 16k pounds. So, on to the mods: I'd start with the basics, exhust, and a bhaf. Alread picked those out. Next, fuel pin? I've heard good things about the dennyII, would this be a wise choice for a tow rig? Then turn in the star wheel and smoke screw. I have seen it mentioned turning the timing up 1/8", would this help? Next I figured a set of injectors, but am totally lost when i comes to which ones. I want a good power increase, but don't want sky high egt's when I'm pullin the cars. I also don't wanna spend 800+ on em'. With all this, I figure I will probably need to do something with the turbo. Could I go to a bigger ex housing, or do I need to step up to a bigger turbo? I'm really not concerned about hp, tq numbers, but I don't want to be down to 25mph pullin the cars up hills

. Thanks for any help guys!!

__________________
1984 z28 Purple Mischief:bracket queen
Yet to be determined cummins, need a tow pig.
Proud member of RAD (racers against dynofags)

peobryant · 11-06-2009, 08:56 PM

Here would be my setup:

Gauges (EGT, Fuel Pressure, Boost, Tranny Temp)
4" exhaust
Low pressure piston lift pump
Upgraded fuel lines
Bigger injectors (maybe 370's)
60/68/14 Turbo
Coolertubz
Clutch
Pump tuning

That setup would tow anything you'd need it to, stay cool, and be very reliable.

__________________
'91.5 D350, 2wd Dually, 4" Straight Pipe, 366 Spring, DennyT Stage II Fuel Pin, Isspro Boost, Pyro, Tranny and Fuel Pressure Gauges
Brothers: '97 2500, 12 Valve, 4wd, 5spd, 716rwhp, 1200+rwtq, Single turbo, Fuel only

The_Head · 11-07-2009, 12:27 PM

Who makes a 60/68/14 S300? I have not heard of that size before.

My notes:

Upgrade to a 7.3 (99-02) Powerstroke intercooler.

4" DP (kinda redundant, just sayin' tho)

Exhaust brake if practical.

Water/meth injection couldn't hurt, but you could manage without it.

Make sure your tires are good. (I lost my first 1st gen due to a crappy tire blowing out).

I think based on the description of your trailer, you will be heavier than 16,000 GCWR. Figure the truck is 6,000 right? 34' goose neck? That trailer has to be pretty heavy.

Your going to have to pay some money if you want a good injector for towing IMO.

__________________
1992 Dodge Power Ram 250: PATC transmission, Suncoast FP, TC and VB, ASA modifieds + AFE filter, Gauges, 366 spring, LP Piston LP, Denny T fuel pin, DDP4's, 3/16" Timing, HE351CW Turbo, 4" exhaust, 7.3 PS Intercooler, and cooler tubez..

khaoskustoms · 11-07-2009, 12:35 PM

For towing you'll want a bigger turbo and better intercooler for sure. They will help keep EGT's in check on long grades.

__________________
1994 Dodge Dakota Ext Cab 4x4. 4BTA Cummins, 15.09 @ 88mph 1/4 mile, 206hp @ 2700rpm and 446ft/lbs @2200rpm

wild84 · 11-07-2009, 01:27 PM

Thanks guys. I was barrowing a buddies truck the other day (1995 cummins, 3/4 ton, 2wd, 5 speed, reg cab) to move my trailer, and figured I would weigh it while I had it. The truck with the gooseneck and about 500lbs of loose scrap steel tipped the scale at 10,700lbs. I know that both cars are real close to 3200lbs each, so 17k would probably be closer. I'm assuming pod's wouldn't be a good injector for a tow pig? What about an hx40? If I were to guess, I would say that I needed somewhere around 400/700. Shouldn't be to much to ask from a cummins, right?

Thanks again guys.

__________________
1984 z28 Purple Mischief:bracket queen
Yet to be determined cummins, need a tow pig.
Proud member of RAD (racers against dynofags)

***unixcowboy*** · 11-07-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Head

Who makes a 60/68/14 S300? I have not heard of that size before.

My notes:

Upgrade to a 7.3 (99-02) Powerstroke intercooler.

4" DP (kinda redundant, just sayin' tho)

Exhaust brake if practical.

Water/meth injection couldn't hurt, but you could manage without it.

Make sure your tires are good. (I lost my first 1st gen due to a crappy tire blowing out).

I think based on the description of your trailer, you will be heavier than 16,000 GCWR. Figure the truck is 6,000 right? 34' goose neck? That trailer has to be pretty heavy.

Your going to have to pay some money if you want a good injector for towing IMO.

Noticed you had a PATC tranny...
If it's the 727 or 518 an exhaust brake won't work. The tranny slippage will negate any braking effect.
You'll need a '94 or later with a locking TC.

__________________
'93 D250 CC HX-40 60/65/17 w/hx50 flange - hit 57 held 55 psi OOPS => 6x16's <=, 366 spring w/1 turn clipped, power screw bottomed-backed off 1/2 turn, Ol Smokey's power pin(modified), removed limit washer, smoke screw fully out, starwheel 4 up - modified top to get pin higher, '94 built trans - clutches and some hard parts, trans cooler in front of radiator, 4510 w/4 1/2" intake and heat shield, htr grids MIA, 4" dp -> 5" pipe -> 5" Stack, 285's rear 265's front

The_Head · 11-07-2009, 05:47 PM

Yeah I know unix, the OP has a 5 speed though. I just kick mine down into 3rd when I go down hills to save the brakes. I haven't towed heavy with my truck, so that tends to work ok.

Also, PODs are not generally considered to be a good towing injector. They are mainly for people who want a nice dirty power increase on the cheap.

and I also think an S300 would be better than an HX40, but there is alot of debate on this subject.

__________________
1992 Dodge Power Ram 250: PATC transmission, Suncoast FP, TC and VB, ASA modifieds + AFE filter, Gauges, 366 spring, LP Piston LP, Denny T fuel pin, DDP4's, 3/16" Timing, HE351CW Turbo, 4" exhaust, 7.3 PS Intercooler, and cooler tubez..

Last edited by The_Head : 11-07-2009 at 05:54 PM.

Philip · 11-07-2009, 06:47 PM

Pod's can be set to tow with. I would use a set of Bosch 190's myself. No smoke at idle with good power in the towing band.

A IC swap isn't needed for towing. A stocker will do. Changing out the air horn to 3" it will help.

A PDR Hx35 makes a good towing turbo. A SuperHX40 will also. Just make sure it is a Super and not a regular 6 or 8 blade HX40. A 60MM S300 would make a good tow turbo.

You stated you would like 400 HP and tow. Thats not very likely with the load you stated.

__________________
93 W350 w/duals, fuel pin turned, 6X.018" injectors, 4" exhaust, 3" air intake horn, Super HX40/16, auto, 3:07's axles, 2" skyjacker lift, B&W flatbed

CTD Performance Junkie · 11-07-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Pod's can be set to tow with. I would use a set of Bosch 190's myself. No smoke at idle with good power in the towing band.

A IC swap isn't needed for towing. A stocker will do. Changing out the air horn to 3" it will help.

A PDR Hx35 makes a good towing turbo. A SuperHX40 will also. Just make sure it is a Super and not a regular 6 or 8 blade HX40. A 60MM S300 would make a good tow turbo.

You stated you would like 400 HP and tow. Thats not very likely with the load you stated.

exactly it might work but like he said he'll be down to like 30-35 mph and the engine will be hot and struggling to keep up.

__________________
1992 Dodge CTD, RCLB, W250, 5x.014's, fuel pump maxed, timing 1/8'',bully dog pin, bully dog 4'' exhaust, 366 spring, traction bars, ASA mods intake, and a new 62/65/12 s300 turbo from jacob@diesel auto power, great deal and price, really rollin coal now

The_Head · 11-08-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Pod's can be set to tow with.

I never said they could not be used. I just stated they were not known to be a towing injector. You get what you pay for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by philip

A IC swap isn't needed for towing. A stocker will do

A stocker will do, but a PS intercooler will be better.

__________________
1992 Dodge Power Ram 250: PATC transmission, Suncoast FP, TC and VB, ASA modifieds + AFE filter, Gauges, 366 spring, LP Piston LP, Denny T fuel pin, DDP4's, 3/16" Timing, HE351CW Turbo, 4" exhaust, 7.3 PS Intercooler, and cooler tubez..

crossy's son · 11-08-2009, 07:42 PM

I'd get gauges first. EGT pyrometer w/pre turbo probe...and a boost gauge

It hasn't been stated yet and i'm surprised. the 91.5 trucks have a horrible slow spooling laggy 21cm exhaust housing.....finding an 18.5cm housing off a non intercooled truck or a 93 would be a nice upgrade and would still keep egt's in check. the 18.5cm housing is the ultimate housing in my opinion...the 21cm on 91.5-92 trucks sucks!!

To tow the load safely and better i'd do a few free tweaking on the pump and then start thinking about stopping it.

Upgrade the rear brake shoes to 3" wide ones like a 1-ton 1st gen would have and upgrade to GM (chevy) 1-ton wheel cylinders and you'll be amazed......there are 1st gen CTD heavy duty cross drilled brake rotors on ebay with good pads..that would be a wize upgrade too

BHAF,4" exhaust, M&H M2 fuel pin (same as dennyt but M2 is a towing pin...dennyII is a full out performance pin), advance timing, 18.5cm or 16cm housing...and a 2nd generation cummins air intake horn and you'll be impressed

As soon as you add injectors your clutch will start slipping...75% of the time thats what happens. not very often do people slip a stock clutch with nothing but pump tweaks. usually takes injectors to slip it.

__________________
1991.0 D250, 5spd, 3.54LS, resto in progress
1993 D250, 5 spd, 3.54, 350k... 3200 spring, +1 turn on power screw, timing +3/16,tranny overfilled 10w-30

Last edited by crossy's son : 11-08-2009 at 07:46 PM.

11-06-2009, 05:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
wild84 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pahrump/Las Vegas Posts: 10 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts wild84's Truck Pics	New to 1st gens, help me build a tow rig. I'm looking at a 91.5 3/4ton, 2wd, 5 speed. I need to be able to pull my 34' gooseneck with both mine, and the wife's race cars on it. I figure the truck, trailer, and both cars would weigh in at about 16k pounds. So, on to the mods: I'd start with the basics, exhust, and a bhaf. Alread picked those out. Next, fuel pin? I've heard good things about the dennyII, would this be a wise choice for a tow rig? Then turn in the star wheel and smoke screw. I have seen it mentioned turning the timing up 1/8", would this help? Next I figured a set of injectors, but am totally lost when i comes to which ones. I want a good power increase, but don't want sky high egt's when I'm pullin the cars. I also don't wanna spend 800+ on em'. With all this, I figure I will probably need to do something with the turbo. Could I go to a bigger ex housing, or do I need to step up to a bigger turbo? I'm really not concerned about hp, tq numbers, but I don't want to be down to 25mph pullin the cars up hills . Thanks for any help guys!! __________________ 1984 z28 Purple Mischief:bracket queen Yet to be determined cummins, need a tow pig. Proud member of RAD (racers against dynofags)

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11-06-2009, 08:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
peobryant Diesel Freak Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Goshen, Ky Posts: 754 Thanks: 0 Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts peobryant's Truck Pics	Here would be my setup: Gauges (EGT, Fuel Pressure, Boost, Tranny Temp) 4" exhaust Low pressure piston lift pump Upgraded fuel lines Bigger injectors (maybe 370's) 60/68/14 Turbo Coolertubz Clutch Pump tuning That setup would tow anything you'd need it to, stay cool, and be very reliable. __________________ '91.5 D350, 2wd Dually, 4" Straight Pipe, 366 Spring, DennyT Stage II Fuel Pin, Isspro Boost, Pyro, Tranny and Fuel Pressure Gauges Brothers: '97 2500, 12 Valve, 4wd, 5spd, 716rwhp, 1200+rwtq, Single turbo, Fuel only

11-07-2009, 12:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
The_Head Cummins Fan Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Worland, WY Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts The_Head's Truck Pics	Who makes a 60/68/14 S300? I have not heard of that size before. My notes: Upgrade to a 7.3 (99-02) Powerstroke intercooler. 4" DP (kinda redundant, just sayin' tho) Exhaust brake if practical. Water/meth injection couldn't hurt, but you could manage without it. Make sure your tires are good. (I lost my first 1st gen due to a crappy tire blowing out). I think based on the description of your trailer, you will be heavier than 16,000 GCWR. Figure the truck is 6,000 right? 34' goose neck? That trailer has to be pretty heavy. Your going to have to pay some money if you want a good injector for towing IMO. __________________ 1992 Dodge Power Ram 250: PATC transmission, Suncoast FP, TC and VB, ASA modifieds + AFE filter, Gauges, 366 spring, LP Piston LP, Denny T fuel pin, DDP4's, 3/16" Timing, HE351CW Turbo, 4" exhaust, 7.3 PS Intercooler, and cooler tubez..

11-07-2009, 12:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
khaoskustoms Cummins Nut Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 369 Thanks: 1 Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts khaoskustoms's Truck Pics	For towing you'll want a bigger turbo and better intercooler for sure. They will help keep EGT's in check on long grades. __________________ 1994 Dodge Dakota Ext Cab 4x4. 4BTA Cummins, 15.09 @ 88mph 1/4 mile, 206hp @ 2700rpm and 446ft/lbs @2200rpm

11-07-2009, 01:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
wild84 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pahrump/Las Vegas Posts: 10 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts wild84's Truck Pics	Thanks guys. I was barrowing a buddies truck the other day (1995 cummins, 3/4 ton, 2wd, 5 speed, reg cab) to move my trailer, and figured I would weigh it while I had it. The truck with the gooseneck and about 500lbs of loose scrap steel tipped the scale at 10,700lbs. I know that both cars are real close to 3200lbs each, so 17k would probably be closer. I'm assuming pod's wouldn't be a good injector for a tow pig? What about an hx40? If I were to guess, I would say that I needed somewhere around 400/700. Shouldn't be to much to ask from a cummins, right? Thanks again guys. __________________ 1984 z28 Purple Mischief:bracket queen Yet to be determined cummins, need a tow pig. Proud member of RAD (racers against dynofags)

11-07-2009, 05:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
The_Head Cummins Fan Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Worland, WY Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts The_Head's Truck Pics	Yeah I know unix, the OP has a 5 speed though. I just kick mine down into 3rd when I go down hills to save the brakes. I haven't towed heavy with my truck, so that tends to work ok. Also, PODs are not generally considered to be a good towing injector. They are mainly for people who want a nice dirty power increase on the cheap. and I also think an S300 would be better than an HX40, but there is alot of debate on this subject. __________________ 1992 Dodge Power Ram 250: PATC transmission, Suncoast FP, TC and VB, ASA modifieds + AFE filter, Gauges, 366 spring, LP Piston LP, Denny T fuel pin, DDP4's, 3/16" Timing, HE351CW Turbo, 4" exhaust, 7.3 PS Intercooler, and cooler tubez.. Last edited by The_Head : 11-07-2009 at 05:54 PM.

11-07-2009, 06:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
Philip 1ST GEN MODERATOR Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,110 Thanks: 2 Thanked 130 Times in 120 Posts Philip's Truck Pics	Pod's can be set to tow with. I would use a set of Bosch 190's myself. No smoke at idle with good power in the towing band. A IC swap isn't needed for towing. A stocker will do. Changing out the air horn to 3" it will help. A PDR Hx35 makes a good towing turbo. A SuperHX40 will also. Just make sure it is a Super and not a regular 6 or 8 blade HX40. A 60MM S300 would make a good tow turbo. You stated you would like 400 HP and tow. Thats not very likely with the load you stated. __________________ 93 W350 w/duals, fuel pin turned, 6X.018" injectors, 4" exhaust, 3" air intake horn, Super HX40/16, auto, 3:07's axles, 2" skyjacker lift, B&W flatbed

11-08-2009, 07:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
crossy's son Cummins Nut Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: SOUTHERN NEW JERSEY, Lil town of pennsville Posts: 335 Thanks: 1 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts crossy's son's Truck Pics	I'd get gauges first. EGT pyrometer w/pre turbo probe...and a boost gauge It hasn't been stated yet and i'm surprised. the 91.5 trucks have a horrible slow spooling laggy 21cm exhaust housing.....finding an 18.5cm housing off a non intercooled truck or a 93 would be a nice upgrade and would still keep egt's in check. the 18.5cm housing is the ultimate housing in my opinion...the 21cm on 91.5-92 trucks sucks!! To tow the load safely and better i'd do a few free tweaking on the pump and then start thinking about stopping it. Upgrade the rear brake shoes to 3" wide ones like a 1-ton 1st gen would have and upgrade to GM (chevy) 1-ton wheel cylinders and you'll be amazed......there are 1st gen CTD heavy duty cross drilled brake rotors on ebay with good pads..that would be a wize upgrade too BHAF,4" exhaust, M&H M2 fuel pin (same as dennyt but M2 is a towing pin...dennyII is a full out performance pin), advance timing, 18.5cm or 16cm housing...and a 2nd generation cummins air intake horn and you'll be impressed As soon as you add injectors your clutch will start slipping...75% of the time thats what happens. not very often do people slip a stock clutch with nothing but pump tweaks. usually takes injectors to slip it. __________________ 1991.0 D250, 5spd, 3.54LS, resto in progress 1993 D250, 5 spd, 3.54, 350k... 3200 spring, +1 turn on power screw, timing +3/16,tranny overfilled 10w-30 Last edited by crossy's son : 11-08-2009 at 07:46 PM.