Did I understand correctly,you made your control arms longer by 3.5 inches to compensate for your 3.5 inch lift?
Reason i'm asking is that for a 2.5 inch lift the control arms are aproximately 1/2 - 5/8 inch longer than stock.I may be wrong.

 

i hope them arms are super strong....they get lots of forces put on em....

 

Agalczy:

You read my post correctly...

The upper arm is 17" and the lower is 19"
They make a different arc as they travel up and down.

The more u raise the truck, the faster the upper arc
pulls back towards the cab. So if u lift a truck, the upper
needs to be lengthened more than the lower.

Autocad/Solidworks is easy to map it in...

So the STOCK setup by Dodge sucks... the qrtr panel is too close to the door, and that's why no one makes a cutout fender flare for the Dodge. On top of that, the suspension is setup where the pivot point on a dually is pretty far inboard. So as you turn the tire hard one way or the other, the tire swings back into the cab area.

An easy fix for this is to move the front bumper out 2.5 inches... and then re-center the front axle in the new and wider wheel-well.

So I lengthen the upper 3.5" and the lower 3.25".

Since the arms are so cheesy to begin with, I use 2"x3/16 plate and add two fishplates on the INSIDE of the arms, and button weld through the two holes already in the arms, and then I box the entire outside of the arm with 3/16" plate.

Even if I wasn't going to extend the arms, I would have taken them off and boxed them in with heavier steel.
It's scary how thin the metal is that holds that front axle.

I will post pics when this one is finished.

As for my fab skills, I'm a mechanical engineer, and have a well equipped shop. Check out my website, Custom fabrication of Lifted Trucks and Jeeps. Just a hobby, but I build all kinds of vehicles, race cars, rockcrawlers, modified Jeeps, semi trucks etc.

I love all the stuff posted on here... can't wait to get my Smarty in...!

 

I'm trying to follow you here?

It sounds like you are moving the axle forward about 2.5-3" correct?

If so, are you planning a longer driveshaft? Are you moving the coil buckets forward on the frame? What about the steering box? Sway bar? Track bar mount?:confused013:

I know a half inch or so shouldn't create any problems, but I could see some serious problems with relocating the axle 2 1/2 inches without addressing all of the other parts.

Also,
Most of us just cut that control arm bolt off and put a new one in from the outside like Dodge should have done.:thumbsup:

But it still sounds like a good reason for the performance parts.

 

238mph After checking that web site out, you just keep doin what you're doin cause I do believe you have it all figured out as far as lifted trucks go.

 

You got that right!!! Damn some of that chit is HOT!

Well I'm sure they are all quality builds, but The international, the jeep and the XR have got me :drool2: :drool2: :drool2:

 

Post pictures for sure...

Your solution to a very mild lift is interesting to say the least...

 

 

Thanks Big Silver...

Ken White... I'm really correcting the mistakes that Dodge made, that's why I go to all the work. 20 hours of fab work for a 3.5" lift seems crazy, but no matter what I do it MUST be done right, and work perfectly.

I've lifted over 100 trucks in the last 20 years... from a 3" lift (seldom) to 24" if lift. NONE of my trucks have bumpsteer, death wobble, pull to one side or the other.

I've seen some really shoddy work out there... stuff I would never ride in.. even from some large manufacturers. So even though it seems like a lot of overkill for a simple 3.5" of lift, I know it will ride good, handle perfect, be much stronger than stock, and I won't ever have to worry about 37's rubbing even if I'm off-road at severe angles.

I enter all my measurements in Solidworks, and put them through motion geometry to make sure everything works well. Sad that a lot of companies with millions of big bucks don't do the same.

I saw one firm selling traction bars that do absolutely NOTHING, but I guess they thought they looked cool.

Sorry for the rant... but no matter what amount of lift is being done, it should be done right. And I'm pissed at Dodge for some of the crap I see under my truck.

I shouldn't have to re-engineer a brand new truck to make it safe.

 

I saw one firm selling traction bars that do absolutely NOTHING, but I guess they thought they looked cool.

Do you have an opinion on Cal-trac's?

 

what shocks you plan on runnin?? some Bilstein 2.5's or so??

 

What type of axle upgrades did you do to the Rubicon? Did you 4-link the front and/or rear or are you still using a track-bar? Neither of these axles look to have been moved, it looks like you lengthened the frame center section instead, so is that why the steering wasn't upgraded?

I am in the process of rebuilding my Rubicon so it will be interesting to hear what you had to overcome.

:thumbsup:

 

Never looked at CalTracs..

As for the rubi... the front axles and spring buckets were
moved forward 7" as the was steering box, which was also
upgraded to a 1 ton.

The rear was moved back 30" and was a 4 link.
The frame was extended 28".

The cab was shortened 18", and the hard top was modified
to fit the shortened cab. But I kept it long enough to
move the seats all the way back and still recline them too.

The front was left with a trac bar, but had the trac bar
relocated lower to rid the bumpsteer.

I ran the stock Rubi axles with the elec lockers.

I said that if I ever broke an axle I'd go to 1 tons but I
never did... I sold that unit to a Ford dealer in Texas,
just under $100k. Took a year and a half to build.. weekends only.

 

You went from a 93.4" wheelbase to a 130.4" wheelbase or was it a 158.4" wheelbase?

How in the world did you move the front steering box ahead 7" when the rear of the front cross member butts right up to the front of the steering box - the steering box would have to move in front of the cross member.

Is the rear axle directly under the gas tank, not in front of it anymore?

While the stock Rubi lockers are controlled by a 12VDC signal, they are actually air lockers that are activated by individual 5psi compressors.

Do you have any better pictures of the jeep you could post up that would show the steering box and track-bar set-up as well as your axle link mounts?

Also, it looks like your jeep pictures are composed of two different jeep builds. The top pictures appear to be using a Rubicon platform with a longer wheelbase and bigger cab area while the bottom pictures are a Sport model with a shorter wheelbase and smaller cab area. Are all of the jeep pictures of the same jeep?

Thanks

 

trying to follow here too bud you posted your CA arm 17 and 19 inches long are those the measurements you got for the stockers or the new ones that are 3" longer:thumbsup: dang man moving the axle 3" forward would really like to see some pics bud that could be pretty neat and different

 

17-19 are stock lengths... I'll post pics when done if I
can take all the haters and BS I'm getting.

 

Dammit I was forced to order a Smarty and Pipe for my '09 Dually!!!

How it happened... I was installing a 3.5 inch lift in the front, and wanted the front axle moved forward as everyone knows the larger tires rub by the firewall. And as u lift the truck, the arms swing down and back...

Since I have a machine shop, I decided to run a 3.5" longer arm on top and a 3" longer lower... Well, I got the left side done, and realized that to get the right side upper arm out, ya have to remove the downpipe!!!

I don't want to be one of those guys but to make your CA arms 3.5" & 3" longer is way too much for just a 4.5" lift. Dropping the axle down 4.5"s from the lift does not bring the axle back 3"s closer to the rear side of the fender well. Maybe a 1" at the most.

I have a 6" lift and the new CA that came with it are maybe a 1" or 2"s longer to center the axle / keep it in the factory location. So I don't get this 3" longer lower and 3.5" longer upper. Where did you get these measurements from.

 

You skipped the whole post about moving the bumper forward to make the overall wheel well larger, and then centering the axle in the larger hole. I got my measurements but putting the data into Solidworks.

 

Curious as well about your plans for steering, swaybar, tracbar, etc.

Seems like way overkill for 3.5" lift. Checked out the site, nice work. Post pics when its done!

 

By the way. I love the Jeep Truck on your site. Very cool

 

Nice work with those rigs on your website, that stuff looks super clean! :thumbsup:

I'm interested in seeing pictures of what you're doing to your Dodge. I hope you still plan on posting some pictures up.

 

Not hating man just inquisitive. I am sure your well aware that we have the "rare occasion" to get some guys on here that tell some pretty damn good fish/fab stories. Just the nature of the beast. I myself own a currently smaller custom fab shop and do custom length Control Arms and traction Bars and numerous other things. I know for a 6" lift the correct control arm length is Upper overall is 20 5/8 and eye to eye center is 17 5/8 Lower overall is 22 1/2 and eye to eye center is 19 11/16 which is 1" longer than stock and for 4" and under I do 1/2" longer than stockers. I agree the stockers are substandard but 3" seems like a lot. I use solid works and a few different cad programs and just want to see pics of how you did it and what benefits. as well as where you put the rest of the front end at? Sounds like you have already done them in SW so post up some pics of the CAD very curious. Here is a set I am working on now that are 1" longer

 

Hey Buck....Anymore cool ideas for the 8" lift?

Also Buck...On your control arms, since your CNC'ing them out, why not make cut-out flames where the squares are? that would be sweet!

 

Havent had much time to play with the lifts a whole lot yet but when its time LOOK OUT

 

Boost, you still don't get what I'm saying...

For you and I that really do a lot of off-road and visits to MOAB, Tellico, and other great parks, I'm with you...
I'll take an Atlas and a TwinStik, some high clearance axles etc...

This dealer wants people to look... It sits outside his dealership and draws people in like flies....

Was it worth big bucks for that??? To him, yep!
Does he have the skills to fab his own from scratch? Nope.

If he bought an AEV, would there be others like it?

YEP....

If he bought mine, would he have the only totally rad looking Rubicon? Yep, and that's why he bought it.

 

rb, your data is for putting the axle where it was prior to the lift.

For me, the stock axle is too far back towards the cab.
Even if I wasn't doing ANY lift, I would move the axle 2" forward to clear the cab's quarter panel.

Since I was adding lift, to get the same effect, I went 3.5 inches longer uppers and 3.25 longer lowers.

The overall effect is to move the axle about 2" forward with the lift.

Don't forget, (u might have missed this) I moved the front bumper out 2.5 inches to open up the wheel-well.
I guess a simple picture would put all this to bed...

Coming soon....

 

Cool, I'm interested, too. I'm building custom air ride on mine.

 

Here is a pic... upper arm finished and coated, lower just roughed in. It will need to come back out for additional boxing (3/16" plate) and coating.

The spring is not fully compressed in the pic, but does have quite a bit of pressure on it.

I am also waiting on std offset rims for the front... Note the front bumper moved forward which makes the overall wheel well larger. That allows me to moved the axle forward and still be centered in the wheel well.

Some may argue that the spring in slightly forward of the spring bucket up top. Yes it is... by about 3-4 degrees.
Yet those same people forget that when the suspension articulates from side to side by 20 degrees (like off-roading)
it works fine...

This truck is a mega dually by the way... so once painted, the front fender flair will go with the rear painted dually fender.
The flares are off a 5500 cab/chassis. Yes, you must drill the fender to install them.

 

NICE! Sweet looking setup man, you clearly know what you are doing. How long till your project is complete? I'd love to see the stance on that once finished.

Also, when you moved your axle forward, did you not run into any of the other parts i.e. swaybar, tierods, track bar anything? Did you have to mod those too? On mine I could almost swear I'm going to hit them if I move my axle to far forward.

thanks!

 

Nice work!!!! You obviously know your stuff!

 

Swaybar needs to be moved forward... everything else clears...that's the limit unless u go more lift, otherwise the trackbar will get into the front of the diff... and of course, longer shocks.

 

I can't wait to see the finished look of that truck. I wish I was capable of doing that to my truck.

 

While I keep hearing how cheap the stock control arms are and how they need to be beefed up, they are actually quite good at providing the much needed torsional flex if/when the truck suspension articulates.

Beefing up the stock control arms will require a softer durameter bushing at both ends, which will create earlier bushing failure, or damage could occur to the frame or axle control arm mounts.

Take a look at the Jeep TJ suspension design world and you will see what I mean. Heavy control arms require suspension jounts that can provide for misalignment as the control arms, track-bar, and axle move in their various arcs during articulation.

Just something to think about...

 

Agree with most everything you said. However look at skyjacker arms that are included with their lifts for our trucks. Look at the SJ arms that are included with the TJ lifts (basic not RR kits) they both have poly bushings on both ends. For your average guy who doesn't plan on wheeling his truck, he'll never have an issue with the rigid poly bushings. Even wheeling occasionally he wouldn't have probelms, nor woudl someone with an arm that had poly on both ends. Yes if you wheel regularly and use every inch of articulation your rig has to offer, over time you will stress the mounts out and you'll eventually rip them off.
Chances are most folks aren't flexing out there 3/4 and 1 ton trucks regularly though. Especially when its a dually. I highly doubt he'll ever have a problem. He still has rubber bushings that allow some misalignment, so he is still in better shape than all the guys here who are running Fabtech, Skyjacker, Superlift (basic), and some BDS arms which all have poly on both ends and are a totally rigid arm.

I understand what your getting at though, I had to weld an UCA mount back on a TJ 44 last night, after 11 years of abuse with old school Tera flex arms it just tore clean off. Poly bushings blow.