If this is true, 6.7 WITH the DPF can Idle as long as you want

[mattpopp]

I got this off of the TDR web site. Pretty good write up. It was mainly directed towards the C&C but he did mention "Pick ups" in there,

"Long Periods of Idling is Acceptable" says Dodge Engineer - TDR Roundtable


A couple of weeks ago another member started a thread in this forum asking about idling our 6.7 Cummins engines for long periods of time. Everyone who replied including myself probably had the opinion that it was not okay. We've all heard it and we've all probably repeated it as the "gospel."

Fellow member Shelby Griggs surprised me when he posted a quote in that thread a couple weeks ago from the Dodge.com website Body Builder's Section stating that it was okay to idle the new 4500/5500 cab and chassis trucks on a jobsite for as long as needed because the new engines meet ARB standards which permit long period of idling. The Dodge Body Builder website statement went on to compare the Dodge to it's inferior competitors, GM and Ferd, and state that owners of similar GM and Ferd trucks could not idle their trucks because they don't meet ARB standards and it was violated smog standards and the law. When I read this I thought, "what about 3500 cab and chassis trucks?" We all know that the 3500 uses engine and emissions equipment identical to the 4500/5500.

I sent an e-mail to Dodge.com custormer service not expecting much. They acknowledged my question immediately and promised a reply. A week went by and yesterday I got a reply via e-mail which suggested I ask the Dodge Body Builder Section's Customer Service center. Here is the message I received:

Dear Harvey:

Thank you for your recent inquiry.

Upon further research, your questions would be best answered by Dodge
Body Builder's Guide Customer Service. This department can be reached at
1-866-205-4102 from 6:00 AM until 2:45 PM. It is a voice mail system,
simply leave a message detailing your question and leaving your contact
information."

And here is my original message:

Original Message Follows:
------------------------

New Vehicle Information - Dodge Brand Site
Brief Description:
Can I idle the Cummins engine in my 2008 Dodge Ram 3500 Cab and Chassis
for long periods of time?

Comments:
I discovered the following paragraph on the Dodge website: "Jobsite idling Dodge Ram 4500 and 5500 Chassis Cabs have low enough emissions that they can idle indefinitely at a jobsite, letting you use their HVAC and electrical features. This is because Dodge Ram 4500 and 5500 Chassis
Cabs meet the 2008 Air Resource Board's state diesel emissions standards for medium-duty trucks (which includes CA, CT, DE, GA, ME, NJ, NY, NC, PA and TX). So you can let your truck idle while Ford and GM owners have to automatically shut down after idling five minutes or risk fines in these states."

I am the satisfied owner of a 2008 Dodge Ram Quad Cab and Chassis. It has been my understanding that the engines, transmissions, and emissions equipment of the 3500 cab and chassis trucks are identical to the 4500/5500 cab and chassis trucks mentioned in the statement on the Dodge website. My question: Does the permitted idle statement also apply to my '08 3500 cab and chassis? Or stated another way, without regard to ARB standards, is it permissible from the perspective of potential soot accumulation in my diesel particulate filter and turbocharger to idle my 3500 for long periods of time also? Thanks for your assistance.
Harvey Barlow

I called the number provided and left a message with my question. Later this morning I received a call from a very professional, very helpful engineer. I repeated my question and he explained that they wrote the paragraph about idling 4500/5500s only because the idle laws apply ONLY to medium duty and heavy duty trucks. He said owners can idle a 3500 C&C as long as we like. I told him I assumed that the Dodge engineers had thoroughly considered the risk of sooting up our turbos and/or dpfs. He assured me they had.

We talked for about 15 minutes and he answered all my questions.

In summary he stated clearly and without any ambiguity whatsoever that owners of cab and chassis trucks and pickups can idle their trucks as long as they wish. He specifically stated we can idle them all day or all night if we want to. I asked if it should be at low idle or high idle. He stated clearly again, "it doesn't matter."

He told me that the regen system has two modes. I'm having trouble remembering the details but I think he said one mode will allow the engine to idle for long periods of time without adding additional soot to the dpf and the other mode will kick the regen up a notch (my words) and reduce any accumulated soot.

I asked the engineer if he was familiar with TDR. He replied, "of course." I asked him if he minded if I posted the reply he provided for the information of all TDR members. He said no, go ahead. I asked him if it was okay to publish the Body Builder Guide Customer Service telephone number. Again he told me it was okay but he wanted me to emphasize that the Body Builder website and phone number are primarly intended to deal with cab and chassis trucks and issues related to upfitter bodies. He did say though that they will also answer engine questions regarding C&C trucks.

I asked him if a source of written explanation was available to anyone who wanted to read and learn more about the new engines, emission systems, and proper operation. His reply was polite and tactful but basically his answer was that Cummins, who designs and builds the engines and systems, wants them to be "transparent to the owner/driver." In other words, according to him, Cummins thinks we don't need to have detailed knowledge of how the systems work in order to drive and use the engine properly. He didn't say this but I suspect Cummins and Dodge don't want us to know any more. It is probably information they don't want their competitors to have access to and probably don't want us TDR members/Dodge owners to know enough to try to tinker with them. I accept this.

If anyone wants to know more about your C&C truck I would suggest you call. Please don't bombard them with 30,000 questions in the next few weeks and cause them to tune us out but Dodge Body Builder's Section are friendly, helpful folks who are very helpful and willing to give us good answers to reasonable questions.

__________________
07 l 6.7 l .75 ton l MC l with stuff on it and a new head gasket
96 l 5.9 l .75 ton l EC l with not much on it

[Riddler6.7]

the call the idle stages:

Net Zero and Net Reduce

__________________
2007.5 QC SWB 4x4
6.7CTD, 68RE, Inferno Red, Big Horn

[mucktramp]

When I had a DPF, 10 minutes of ideling time would set off the OHC saying catalist full, see owners manual. Since that thing fell off after hiting a cattle gaurd, Its ideled more than its been drove. No soot to speak of and no smoke and stink.
I think that story is bunk.

__________________
07.5, 6.7L, 3500 quad, single, long, 4x4, six speed gear grinder, Air Raid intake. DPF-R delete, unpluged EGR.
LIVE BETTER-WORK UNION I.U.O.E LOCAL 302

[B.Law]

I always wondered with the DPF, I've idled a good bit with the 07.5, but not near as much as the early 2004 I had. I have never gotten any messages on the OH from any extended idling thus far.

I was constanly berated for saying how much I idled the 04, but at just under 300k on the ticker it dropped a valve. Whilst the head was off I got to take a peek at everything and it was super clean, a lot cleaner that I imagined it would be.

__________________
2007.5 QC/LB 4x4 Auto, 4.5" Lift w/ 35" PJ Dirt Grips, Plug pulled

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Last edited by B.Law : 12-14-2008 at 10:35 PM.

[Riddler6.7]

i guess some one should have stated that, only with the newest flashes can you idle indefinitely

__________________
2007.5 QC SWB 4x4
6.7CTD, 68RE, Inferno Red, Big Horn

[Jeepstang]

As I always have said my truck often idles for more than an hour and I have been saying this for almost 2 years now and have not had any DPF issues to date
i still think it's the fuel and the mom and pop stations that sell cheaper LSD and label them as ULSD. There was once a thread by a fuel delivery driver who said he has been told to fill the tanks with LSD even knowing they had decals claiming ULSD to save on the fuel cost. To this date LSD is more common in the Washignton DC area than ULSD
i am very careful where I get my fuel from. CHrysler has been teaching the tech's that work for me that most of the fuel issues is in the south west area of the US

__________________
16,000 all code free miles! with all emissions intact.
2007.5 3500 DRW Megacab 3.73, 68RFE 4x4,
24.8 Miles from Obama