MM3 or EFI Live - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
4th Gen Performance Parts Discussion Discussion of Performance Parts For the 4th Gen Trucks...NO ADVERTISING

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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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MM3 or EFI Live

I know that most here are pro EFI Live, and I believe that it is for very good reason.
However,
Calibrated Power is posting on Facebook that they are now playing around with raceme and warp software. (for 2013 +) somewhere I read that they have more defined tables than efi.
My question is, is there anyone out there that can truly confirm or debunk this?

Someone who has been tuning with both.

Not trying to start a war! but, competition is ALWAYS go for us consumers. (and I just can not believe that I have to purchase Bully Dog to tune. That is just lazy, crazy or an under the table deal)


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2013 VW Passat. EPA says they are going to crush it.
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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 11:27 AM
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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 11:28 AM
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MM3 or EFI Live

Out of the box, I'm sure smarty has more parameters. But most of the efi live tuners are writing their own tunes, within their own proprietary software, not using whats available, or provided to them them from efi live. It's a delivery method for a lot of things. The 2 common questions I see about smarty is about data logging, and the ability for a tuner to upload their own files or parameters within to write their tunes. I've never used it or seen it being used, and I doubt tuners will share their secrets with what access they have with their private software, so a true answer may never be achievable.

It's about what suites your needs the most. I never switch tunes (that's the transmission killer), and I don't go through a ton of file revisions, so a lot of the bells and whistles smarty offers isn't of any value to me. To others, smarty suites them much better, you've got to find what best works for you and your truck.

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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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Bob Saget,
I did not think about something until you stated it. Tuners would not and should not offer responses that jeopardize their livelihood.

however, I am not talking about out of the box tunes. MM3 is custom tunes ONLY. It requires a tuner to create you a tune. (even EFI lets you create a tune if you desire)

And

Raceme, Smarty both will unlock the ecm out of the box, becomes a descent set of gauges, and cost less.
If EFI is better, I am for it. but the raceme information is interesting.

Sorry if I misunderstood your response. Not being a tuner, I am talking without much knowledge here.

2012 Ram 3500 XRT Pro, custom tune, 5" TBE, bypass oil filter. Gone
2016 2500 mega cab. Stock for now.
2013 VW Passat. EPA says they are going to crush it.
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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Also, I have to tell you. You thought on switching tunes often or at all made a bell ring in my head. That really makes a lot of since. Get a tune you like and stick with it.

As I read these forums I see those that get 200k miles out of a stock transmission working it hard. And those that fry a transmission often. Makes me wonder if not changing the tune and causing a relearn is the difference in most of these people.

2012 Ram 3500 XRT Pro, custom tune, 5" TBE, bypass oil filter. Gone
2016 2500 mega cab. Stock for now.
2013 VW Passat. EPA says they are going to crush it.
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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1tonson View Post
Bob Saget,
I did not think about something until you stated it. Tuners would not and should not offer responses that jeopardize their livelihood.

however, I am not talking about out of the box tunes. MM3 is custom tunes ONLY. It requires a tuner to create you a tune. (even EFI lets you create a tune if you desire)

And

Raceme, Smarty both will unlock the ecm out of the box, becomes a descent set of gauges, and cost less.
If EFI is better, I am for it. but the raceme information is interesting.

Sorry if I misunderstood your response. Not being a tuner, I am talking without much knowledge here.


I don't mean "box tunes," I'm referring to the parameters offered by efi live vs. the parameters offered by smarty, what is available publicly by efi live for 2013+ trucks, I BELIEVE will be less than what is available publicly by smarty and their mm3 platform. BUT, my point was, MOST of the common tuners using efi live, aren't using the publicly available parameters, or, what's available out of the box, as I put it. So that being said, your question in regards to which platform has more capability, well, out of the box, to me and you (the general public) if we were to write our own tunes, smarty, but to the professional tuner? I guess we will see.


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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 1tonson View Post
Also, I have to tell you. You thought on switching tunes often or at all made a bell ring in my head. That really makes a lot of since. Get a tune you like and stick with it.

As I read these forums I see those that get 200k miles out of a stock transmission working it hard. And those that fry a transmission often. Makes me wonder if not changing the tune and causing a relearn is the difference in most of these people.


Switching tunes, in my opinion, is what destroys transmissions. And I also believe, a good tuner should be able to write you one solid tune to cover ever thing, i.e. max effort, towing, and mileage CAN all be the same tune depending on how skilled the tuner is. I attribute not stock melting my 68rfe with compounds to never switching tunes. Now that I have a built transmission, I still don't switch or flash tunes unless making a change to the truck.


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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 02:38 PM
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I just ordered MM3 for my 2016 3500. Deciding factor was with EFI live I needed to pay bully dog for unlock and I still need a gauge. So for me MM3 is cheaper, I'm hoping to get it this week to give it a try. I've had EFI live in the past but not on a cummins.

2016 ram 3500 srw. Thuren coils and fox IFP. BDS radius arm kit, AMP research steps, Fuel Lethal 20x9 wheels 0 offset, 4" TBE no muffler, MM3 tuning with 30, 80, 120smoke, 120whistle, 120, 200.
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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 04:40 PM
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Who is tuning with warp now


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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 05:17 PM
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Who is tuning with warp now


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Calibrated power solutions, and Dave Mathews at draconian I believe.


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post #11 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-29-2016, 09:24 PM
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I have asked a couple of the larger professional tuners (shops that have their own in house dyno, testing facility, etc....) about using the MM3 platform and all have pretty much said they will stick to the EFI platform based on what is available to them in the tuning aspect.

Myself personally I will stick to what I know best unless one of the companies I deal with decides to mess with the MM3.

James
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post #12 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-31-2016, 11:00 PM
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As soon as everything dries out around here and quits raining for a day we will have some MM3 and EFI dyno comparisons for you guys. We meant to already have it done but the good Lord decided to give us our entire yearly rainfall within the the last 10 days straight. We will be doing UDC, UDC Pro, and HP Tuners dyno review on my personal 05 truck. And then will have MM3/EFI info using my 08 truck soon after that. Then we will have the 4th gen info everyone is looking for after that. Just not enough hours in the day. I will be posting honest unbiased results of each software good or bad and hopefully help some people make tuning decisions for their particular generation of truck easier regardless of who they purchase it from. And have factual evidence to back it up for people to see instead of just my opinion.

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