CP3 leak myths

Superduty · 02-25-2006, 10:50 AM

" These 26k psi fuel pumps leak easily when the seals are not being kept very moist and tight"

from: http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...ad.php?t=93661

This guy doesn't know what the inside of a CP3 looks like. None of the CP3 internals are running at 26K PSI for two reasons:

a) They run at a maximum pressure of 160 Bar, which is 23,500 PSI
b) The only place these pressures exist are in the pumping chambers. The leakage from these chambers spills out into the internals of the CP3, where the fuel pressure is 80 to 180 PSI.

The pressure on the CP3 seals that leak is 80 to 180 PSI. No more.

People really, really need to get their facts straight before they open their mouths. When they get it wrong they just spread mis information.

Someone please post this correction on the other board.

__________________
In Cummins we trust.

'99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod.
Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge.

I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ?

My diesel blog:
http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/

cumminsmannow · 02-27-2006, 06:29 AM

I passed it on we will see how long it lasts!

__________________
05 dodge 3500 converted drw to srw, silincer ring mia, prodigy. edge juice w/attitude. FOR SALE kinda.

Gerry · 02-27-2006, 08:46 AM

Hey Superduty..

You seem to have a great working knowledge of the CP3. Being as my truck is still under warranty and will be for for the time duration (can't see hitting over 70K in 7 years). What do you think about fuel additives?

I have tried Powerservice and it seems to quiet the engine some. Lucas seems to do the best quieting the ticking I assume is comming from the CP3.

Will these help to keep the CP3 Lubricated if the intank lift pump does not supply enough fuel to allow the CPS to bypass fuel to the lubercation chambers??

Gerry

__________________
2005 CTD Laramie, Mineral grey, auto, 2" daystar leveling spacers, 315 BFGAT's, air horns, Isspro guages "A" pillar mount (egt,trans temp, boost), Snug top hard cover with Remote latch, bed rug, daily driver with light towing now and then.

cumminsmannow · 02-27-2006, 07:42 PM

you have a 100k warranty on your cummins!

__________________
05 dodge 3500 converted drw to srw, silincer ring mia, prodigy. edge juice w/attitude. FOR SALE kinda.

Gerry · 02-28-2006, 04:53 PM

I'll run out of time before I put 100K on the truck.. the Cummins warranty aslo has a time frame.

__________________
2005 CTD Laramie, Mineral grey, auto, 2" daystar leveling spacers, 315 BFGAT's, air horns, Isspro guages "A" pillar mount (egt,trans temp, boost), Snug top hard cover with Remote latch, bed rug, daily driver with light towing now and then.

davelinde · 03-01-2006, 07:51 PM

I've gotta look this up...
But the fuel system falls under the 7/70 powertrain or the 7/100 engine warranty? Also don't co-payments kick in at 5/70 on both?

I started that other thread and ended up over here to see what other answers might be known about fuel systems in general. I'm kind of miffed at DC right now since they are dragging their feet to fix my CP3 problem. Hopefully done tomorrow... (thanx for letting me vent :Complain: )

__________________
04 2500 SLT QC 4x4 HO SWB 48RE Graphite
Downey Tonneau, Raptor SS Nerfs, Mopar mud flaps, Tekonsha Prodigy, Reese 16K Kwik-slide, BD X-Monitor, PML Diff Cover, PML Trans pan

Gerry · 03-01-2006, 08:15 PM

It will probably be something stupid like this warranty is used before that warranty. ect..

From Previous posts I have read the VP44 has been replaced with the cummins warranty so I would Assume (and we all know what happens when we assume) that the CP3 would be replaced under the cummins warranty..

Gerry

__________________
2005 CTD Laramie, Mineral grey, auto, 2" daystar leveling spacers, 315 BFGAT's, air horns, Isspro guages "A" pillar mount (egt,trans temp, boost), Snug top hard cover with Remote latch, bed rug, daily driver with light towing now and then.

***AK RAM*** · 03-02-2006, 04:24 PM

The word from Cummins has always been that DC buys these engines with no warranty, and handles the warranty in-house. Cheaper by the dozen that way. DC just offers longer warranty coverage on the Cummins parts because they are better parts than they themselves can build.

May be of value to your discussion, maybe not, but my CP3 has leaked every winter, and only during the winter, since brand new. We are not talking puddles on the floor or anything. Running a pressure box during the winter seems to make it much worse than not running a pressure box during the winter....I actually get a drip or two. It has also been well fed since 500 miles.

__________________
03, 4X4, QUAD, LWB, Standard Output, 47RE, 3.73, ATS TC/VB, DTT Trans/Billet, Flex Plate, TorqLoc, RAD, Twins, Snow, Hot Cp3, Injectors, Cam, 315s, 8,200 lbs wet.
12.32 @ 109 Videos: Vid 1 & Vid 2

Add yourself to the Cummins Forum Map. :thumbsup

davelinde · 03-02-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK RAM

May be of value to your discussion, maybe not, but my CP3 has leaked every winter, and only during the winter, since brand new. We are not talking puddles on the floor or anything.

Great data point, thanks!
I am quite curious. My leak is nothing I'd sweat if it never got worse. I just don't want to keep a pump under warranty that's showing signs of impending failure. I've never seen mine leak during the summer...

This brings back an my original curiousity. I'd heard that an under-fed VP44 would die. I've heard that some third gen LP's die. I've have not heard of anyone who had a cp3 leak that progressed to a failure to start/run... I think I've heard of cp3 leaks that got severe enough they were making a big mess though. Dunno...

__________________
04 2500 SLT QC 4x4 HO SWB 48RE Graphite
Downey Tonneau, Raptor SS Nerfs, Mopar mud flaps, Tekonsha Prodigy, Reese 16K Kwik-slide, BD X-Monitor, PML Diff Cover, PML Trans pan

cumminsmannow · 03-02-2006, 07:13 PM

when I noticed mine leaking about 2 months ago it was because my garage floor had a new set of stains on it. My truck would leave a puddle about 3"round directly below the pump, and another one below the front of the oil pan. I also noticed my mileage slipping about 2-3mpg.

__________________
05 dodge 3500 converted drw to srw, silincer ring mia, prodigy. edge juice w/attitude. FOR SALE kinda.

rich2500 · 03-05-2006, 07:29 AM

from what I can tell after my pump teardown I'm thinking the winterblend fuel is the major culprit to the cp3 leaks,but who knows I may be wrong

__________________
2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

***AK RAM*** · 03-05-2006, 09:42 AM

Hey rich2500….what did you use to pull the gear off when removing your Cp3?

on edit: Disregard. Just looked in your Garage and saw the pics. I picked up a two bolt steering wheel puller that looks like it may work. Do you remember by chance what thread size the holes in the gear were?

Your probably one of the few that have seen inside the Cp3. I haven't so I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but when people say their CP3 "failed", I have a hard time imagining just what failed. Seems there would be a couple small plungers inside, and as long as the shaft was turning, the plungers are moving, and fuel is being pumped. Seems like something would physically have to break to keep the plungers from moving. Since you have seen it, give us your theory.

__________________
03, 4X4, QUAD, LWB, Standard Output, 47RE, 3.73, ATS TC/VB, DTT Trans/Billet, Flex Plate, TorqLoc, RAD, Twins, Snow, Hot Cp3, Injectors, Cam, 315s, 8,200 lbs wet.
12.32 @ 109 Videos: Vid 1 & Vid 2

Add yourself to the Cummins Forum Map. :thumbsup

Last edited by AK RAM : 03-05-2006 at 09:49 AM.

02-25-2006, 10:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
Superduty Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 397 Superduty's Truck Pics	CP3 leak myths " These 26k psi fuel pumps leak easily when the seals are not being kept very moist and tight" from: http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...ad.php?t=93661 This guy doesn't know what the inside of a CP3 looks like. None of the CP3 internals are running at 26K PSI for two reasons: a) They run at a maximum pressure of 160 Bar, which is 23,500 PSI b) The only place these pressures exist are in the pumping chambers. The leakage from these chambers spills out into the internals of the CP3, where the fuel pressure is 80 to 180 PSI. The pressure on the CP3 seals that leak is 80 to 180 PSI. No more. People really, really need to get their facts straight before they open their mouths. When they get it wrong they just spread mis information. Someone please post this correction on the other board. __________________ In Cummins we trust. '99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod. Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge. I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ? My diesel blog: http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/

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02-27-2006, 06:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
cumminsmannow Diesel Freak Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: minnesota Posts: 544 cumminsmannow's Truck Pics	I passed it on we will see how long it lasts! __________________ 05 dodge 3500 converted drw to srw, silincer ring mia, prodigy. edge juice w/attitude. FOR SALE kinda.

02-27-2006, 08:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
Gerry Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 132 Gerry's Truck Pics	Hey Superduty.. You seem to have a great working knowledge of the CP3. Being as my truck is still under warranty and will be for for the time duration (can't see hitting over 70K in 7 years). What do you think about fuel additives? I have tried Powerservice and it seems to quiet the engine some. Lucas seems to do the best quieting the ticking I assume is comming from the CP3. Will these help to keep the CP3 Lubricated if the intank lift pump does not supply enough fuel to allow the CPS to bypass fuel to the lubercation chambers?? Gerry __________________ 2005 CTD Laramie, Mineral grey, auto, 2" daystar leveling spacers, 315 BFGAT's, air horns, Isspro guages "A" pillar mount (egt,trans temp, boost), Snug top hard cover with Remote latch, bed rug, daily driver with light towing now and then.

02-27-2006, 07:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
cumminsmannow Diesel Freak Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: minnesota Posts: 544 cumminsmannow's Truck Pics	you have a 100k warranty on your cummins! __________________ 05 dodge 3500 converted drw to srw, silincer ring mia, prodigy. edge juice w/attitude. FOR SALE kinda.

02-28-2006, 04:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
Gerry Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 132 Gerry's Truck Pics	I'll run out of time before I put 100K on the truck.. the Cummins warranty aslo has a time frame. __________________ 2005 CTD Laramie, Mineral grey, auto, 2" daystar leveling spacers, 315 BFGAT's, air horns, Isspro guages "A" pillar mount (egt,trans temp, boost), Snug top hard cover with Remote latch, bed rug, daily driver with light towing now and then.

03-01-2006, 07:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
davelinde Newbie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 9 davelinde's Truck Pics	I've gotta look this up... But the fuel system falls under the 7/70 powertrain or the 7/100 engine warranty? Also don't co-payments kick in at 5/70 on both? I started that other thread and ended up over here to see what other answers might be known about fuel systems in general. I'm kind of miffed at DC right now since they are dragging their feet to fix my CP3 problem. Hopefully done tomorrow... (thanx for letting me vent :Complain: ) __________________ 04 2500 SLT QC 4x4 HO SWB 48RE Graphite Downey Tonneau, Raptor SS Nerfs, Mopar mud flaps, Tekonsha Prodigy, Reese 16K Kwik-slide, BD X-Monitor, PML Diff Cover, PML Trans pan

03-01-2006, 08:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
Gerry Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 132 Gerry's Truck Pics	It will probably be something stupid like this warranty is used before that warranty. ect.. From Previous posts I have read the VP44 has been replaced with the cummins warranty so I would Assume (and we all know what happens when we assume) that the CP3 would be replaced under the cummins warranty.. Gerry __________________ 2005 CTD Laramie, Mineral grey, auto, 2" daystar leveling spacers, 315 BFGAT's, air horns, Isspro guages "A" pillar mount (egt,trans temp, boost), Snug top hard cover with Remote latch, bed rug, daily driver with light towing now and then.

03-02-2006, 04:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
*AK RAM* Tech Specialist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 2,610 AK RAM's Truck Pics	The word from Cummins has always been that DC buys these engines with no warranty, and handles the warranty in-house. Cheaper by the dozen that way. DC just offers longer warranty coverage on the Cummins parts because they are better parts than they themselves can build. May be of value to your discussion, maybe not, but my CP3 has leaked every winter, and only during the winter, since brand new. We are not talking puddles on the floor or anything. Running a pressure box during the winter seems to make it much worse than not running a pressure box during the winter....I actually get a drip or two. It has also been well fed since 500 miles. __________________ 03, 4X4, QUAD, LWB, Standard Output, 47RE, 3.73, ATS TC/VB, DTT Trans/Billet, Flex Plate, TorqLoc, RAD, Twins, Snow, Hot Cp3, Injectors, Cam, 315s, 8,200 lbs wet. 12.32 @ 109 Videos: Vid 1 & Vid 2 Add yourself to the Cummins Forum Map. :thumbsup

03-02-2006, 07:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
cumminsmannow Diesel Freak Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: minnesota Posts: 544 cumminsmannow's Truck Pics	when I noticed mine leaking about 2 months ago it was because my garage floor had a new set of stains on it. My truck would leave a puddle about 3"round directly below the pump, and another one below the front of the oil pan. I also noticed my mileage slipping about 2-3mpg. __________________ 05 dodge 3500 converted drw to srw, silincer ring mia, prodigy. edge juice w/attitude. FOR SALE kinda.

03-05-2006, 07:29 AM	#11 (permalink)
rich2500 Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pa. Posts: 387 rich2500's Truck Pics	from what I can tell after my pump teardown I'm thinking the winterblend fuel is the major culprit to the cp3 leaks,but who knows I may be wrong __________________ 2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

03-05-2006, 09:42 AM	#12 (permalink)
*AK RAM* Tech Specialist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 2,610 AK RAM's Truck Pics	Hey rich2500….what did you use to pull the gear off when removing your Cp3? on edit: Disregard. Just looked in your Garage and saw the pics. I picked up a two bolt steering wheel puller that looks like it may work. Do you remember by chance what thread size the holes in the gear were? Your probably one of the few that have seen inside the Cp3. I haven't so I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but when people say their CP3 "failed", I have a hard time imagining just what failed. Seems there would be a couple small plungers inside, and as long as the shaft was turning, the plungers are moving, and fuel is being pumped. Seems like something would physically have to break to keep the plungers from moving. Since you have seen it, give us your theory. __________________ 03, 4X4, QUAD, LWB, Standard Output, 47RE, 3.73, ATS TC/VB, DTT Trans/Billet, Flex Plate, TorqLoc, RAD, Twins, Snow, Hot Cp3, Injectors, Cam, 315s, 8,200 lbs wet. 12.32 @ 109 Videos: Vid 1 & Vid 2 Add yourself to the Cummins Forum Map. :thumbsup Last edited by AK RAM : 03-05-2006 at 09:49 AM.