CP3 leak myths - Page 2

rich2500 · 03-05-2006, 10:33 AM

ak the bolt holes in the gear are I believe 8mm,(same size as the bolts that hold the computer on and the same size as the nuts that hold the pump on,normally 13mm head)The inside of the pump is very simple as you said something would almost have to break for the pump to fail totally.

__________________
2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

Big Bob · 03-05-2006, 11:10 AM

Just wondering if adding some kind of lubricant, Power Service, Howes, etc. would help this situation and possibly keep the CP3 from leaking? Especially in the winter time.

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***AK RAM*** · 03-05-2006, 11:35 AM

Well, I use Rotella DFA or PS "Diesel Kleen" at every fill-up and I have the leak every winter, so you can scratch those two off your list. I just let it leak and try not to dwell on it. A little "Gunk" when Spring rolls around and it cleans right up and stays dry and clean all summer. It will be interesting to see if my new CP3 does the same thing next winter.

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03, 4X4, QUAD, LWB, Standard Output, 47RE, 3.73, ATS TC/VB, DTT Trans/Billet, Flex Plate, TorqLoc, RAD, Twins, Snow, Hot Cp3, Injectors, Cam, 315s, 8,200 lbs wet.
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rich2500 · 03-05-2006, 11:47 AM

I run ps and mmo mix every tank and got the leak

__________________
2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

Superduty · 03-05-2006, 05:11 PM

O rings and shafts have to be perfect to seal. Is there any evidence of seal wear or tearing ?

Can you take the seals to a seal dealer and have them identify the material ? It might just be that they aren't pliable enough at cold temps.

Is there any chance of a crack in the CP3 housing somewhere ?

BTW: KUDOS for tearing your pump apart and taking pictures instead of just talking about the problem.

__________________
In Cummins we trust.

'99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod.
Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge.

I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ?

My diesel blog:
http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/

rich2500 · 03-05-2006, 05:51 PM

absolutely no signs of any kind of wear on the seals or the shaft,I also checked the pump real good for cracks and did not find anything,keep in mind my truck only has 6900 miles on it so its not a matter of wear,I have also been running a pusher pump since 2000 miles on the truck with 24psi at idle and never less then 18 psi so its not a supply problem,my truck also never sits outside in the cold weather and gets driven rarely during the winter.

BTW: KUDOS for tearing your pump apart and taking pictures instead of just talking about the problem
Somebody had to do it,So me being the type that insists on fixing everything myself I figured I would be the one to do it and share my findings instead of all this rumor stuff floating around the internet.

__________________
2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

Last edited by rich2500 : 03-05-2006 at 06:14 PM.

Superduty · 03-06-2006, 07:24 AM

Hmmm.... no wear on the seals and still leaks... very interesting. Let me give this some thought. Can you isolate where it leaks ? Do you know if it leaks by the shaft or ? The internal pressure is only 80 to 180 PSI, so this shouldn't be that hard to find.

__________________
In Cummins we trust.

'99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod.
Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge.

I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ?

My diesel blog:
http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/

03-06-2006, 03:10 PM

I am interested to see if the higher then normal inlet pressure is causing these seals to leak. Although we will rarly see it the factory pumps can push out 14psi or more at idle.

Superduty · 03-06-2006, 03:36 PM

Mine saw 60 PSI for a few minutes. No leaking thus far. The internal pressure is 80 to 180 PSI, so I doubt 20 to 50 PSI on the inlet is going to make any difference.

__________________
In Cummins we trust.

'99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod.
Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge.

I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ?

My diesel blog:
http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/

rich2500 · 03-06-2006, 03:45 PM

From what I can tell John it is either the o-ring that seals the pump off at the two part housing or one of the passage o-rings,it was definately not a shaft seal because there was no fuel in between the two shaft seals,Im pretty sure its the o-ring that seals off the pump and the two piece housing.

__________________
2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

03-06-2006, 03:49 PM

I understand that the CP3 has three types of pressure chambers in side of it. First is the inlet pressure around 14PSI. Second is what they call a Low pressure (80-180PSI) and third a high pressure (around 20,000PSI) chamber
What I am curious is if the inlet pressure from the lift pump which is suppose to be around 14PSI factory is causing the seal to fail if it is boosted more then that.
Their is a seperate system for the inlet fuel from the Low pressure chamber of the CP3. Maybe the leak is comming from their. It would be good to see exaclty where this leak is comming from.
If it was from the HP side of the pump then you would see more then just a drip of fuel and the same from the low pressure side.
So I think it may be comming from the inlet feed of the pump.

rich2500 · 03-06-2006, 04:05 PM

the o-ring that i'm talking about is what totally seal the pump area off at the two piece housing , the three chambers could only leak fuel out if that single o-ring leaks,there are six passages that are individually sealed with a small o-ring but they all looked good and sealed.

__________________
2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

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03-05-2006, 10:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
rich2500 Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pa. Posts: 387 rich2500's Truck Pics	ak the bolt holes in the gear are I believe 8mm,(same size as the bolts that hold the computer on and the same size as the nuts that hold the pump on,normally 13mm head)The inside of the pump is very simple as you said something would almost have to break for the pump to fail totally. __________________ 2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

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03-05-2006, 11:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
Big Bob Cummins Fan Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Post Falls, Idaho Posts: 78 Big Bob's Truck Pics	Just wondering if adding some kind of lubricant, Power Service, Howes, etc. would help this situation and possibly keep the CP3 from leaking? Especially in the winter time. __________________ 3rd Gen CB/Ham Radio Mounts, email or PM me for more info. PHOTO PAGE 04, 3500, Wht Laramie, 3:73 LSD DRW, 4x4, IdahoCTD Twins, TST, Smarty, MP8, DTT 48RE w/89% converter, Smart Controller & Mag-Hytec DD trans pan, Mass Diesel's Trans Line, DiProcal Fuel pressure, Oil pressure, Isspro Trans temp Gauges w/full replacement DPP 3 gauge pillar mount, Road Armor Titan III w/KC Daylighters & PIAA's, Keystone's Functional Twin Scoop RamAir Hood, Custom CB mount (that I make), Uniden Grant LT CB, XM SkyFi2 Satellite Radio, Valentine One, 51" Nelson Muffler, RDS 60 gal. fuel/tool box combo, NW Custom MudFlaps, Rocker Panels & Door Sills, Raider canopy and Bed Rug. Hot Edge Juice w/Attitude 497.9 HP, 1/4 mile 13.85 at 97.85 mph, with prior mods, B1-2-04 and Hot Juice.

03-05-2006, 11:35 AM	#15 (permalink)
*AK RAM* Tech Specialist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 2,610 AK RAM's Truck Pics	Well, I use Rotella DFA or PS "Diesel Kleen" at every fill-up and I have the leak every winter, so you can scratch those two off your list. I just let it leak and try not to dwell on it. A little "Gunk" when Spring rolls around and it cleans right up and stays dry and clean all summer. It will be interesting to see if my new CP3 does the same thing next winter. __________________ 03, 4X4, QUAD, LWB, Standard Output, 47RE, 3.73, ATS TC/VB, DTT Trans/Billet, Flex Plate, TorqLoc, RAD, Twins, Snow, Hot Cp3, Injectors, Cam, 315s, 8,200 lbs wet. 12.32 @ 109 Videos: Vid 1 & Vid 2 Add yourself to the Cummins Forum Map. :thumbsup

03-05-2006, 11:47 AM	#16 (permalink)
rich2500 Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pa. Posts: 387 rich2500's Truck Pics	I run ps and mmo mix every tank and got the leak __________________ 2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

03-05-2006, 05:11 PM	#17 (permalink)
Superduty Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 397 Superduty's Truck Pics	O rings and shafts have to be perfect to seal. Is there any evidence of seal wear or tearing ? Can you take the seals to a seal dealer and have them identify the material ? It might just be that they aren't pliable enough at cold temps. Is there any chance of a crack in the CP3 housing somewhere ? BTW: KUDOS for tearing your pump apart and taking pictures instead of just talking about the problem. __________________ In Cummins we trust. '99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod. Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge. I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ? My diesel blog: http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/

03-05-2006, 05:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
rich2500 Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pa. Posts: 387 rich2500's Truck Pics	absolutely no signs of any kind of wear on the seals or the shaft,I also checked the pump real good for cracks and did not find anything,keep in mind my truck only has 6900 miles on it so its not a matter of wear,I have also been running a pusher pump since 2000 miles on the truck with 24psi at idle and never less then 18 psi so its not a supply problem,my truck also never sits outside in the cold weather and gets driven rarely during the winter. BTW: KUDOS for tearing your pump apart and taking pictures instead of just talking about the problem Somebody had to do it,So me being the type that insists on fixing everything myself I figured I would be the one to do it and share my findings instead of all this rumor stuff floating around the internet. __________________ 2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3, Last edited by rich2500 : 03-05-2006 at 06:14 PM.

03-06-2006, 07:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
Superduty Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 397 Superduty's Truck Pics	Hmmm.... no wear on the seals and still leaks... very interesting. Let me give this some thought. Can you isolate where it leaks ? Do you know if it leaks by the shaft or ? The internal pressure is only 80 to 180 PSI, so this shouldn't be that hard to find. __________________ In Cummins we trust. '99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod. Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge. I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ? My diesel blog: http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/

03-06-2006, 03:10 PM	#20 (permalink)
03CTD Posts: n/a	I am interested to see if the higher then normal inlet pressure is causing these seals to leak. Although we will rarly see it the factory pumps can push out 14psi or more at idle.

03-06-2006, 03:36 PM	#21 (permalink)
Superduty Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 397 Superduty's Truck Pics	Mine saw 60 PSI for a few minutes. No leaking thus far. The internal pressure is 80 to 180 PSI, so I doubt 20 to 50 PSI on the inlet is going to make any difference. __________________ In Cummins we trust. '99 Ford Superduty CC with 05 Cummins 325/600, BHAF, Donalson M090544 and ZF6 transmission. Tone ring mod. Walbro 392 lift pump. 2 micron fuel filter on engine with filter lid pressure gauge. I've been running a Walbro 392 since 2000. How long did your fuel pump last ? My diesel blog: http://common-sense-diesel.blogspot.com/

03-06-2006, 03:45 PM	#22 (permalink)
rich2500 Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pa. Posts: 387 rich2500's Truck Pics	From what I can tell John it is either the o-ring that seals the pump off at the two part housing or one of the passage o-rings,it was definately not a shaft seal because there was no fuel in between the two shaft seals,Im pretty sure its the o-ring that seals off the pump and the two piece housing. __________________ 2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,

03-06-2006, 03:49 PM	#23 (permalink)
03CTD Posts: n/a	I understand that the CP3 has three types of pressure chambers in side of it. First is the inlet pressure around 14PSI. Second is what they call a Low pressure (80-180PSI) and third a high pressure (around 20,000PSI) chamber What I am curious is if the inlet pressure from the lift pump which is suppose to be around 14PSI factory is causing the seal to fail if it is boosted more then that. Their is a seperate system for the inlet fuel from the Low pressure chamber of the CP3. Maybe the leak is comming from their. It would be good to see exaclty where this leak is comming from. If it was from the HP side of the pump then you would see more then just a drip of fuel and the same from the low pressure side. So I think it may be comming from the inlet feed of the pump.

03-06-2006, 04:05 PM	#24 (permalink)
rich2500 Tech Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pa. Posts: 387 rich2500's Truck Pics	the o-ring that i'm talking about is what totally seal the pump area off at the two piece housing , the three chambers could only leak fuel out if that single o-ring leaks,there are six passages that are individually sealed with a small o-ring but they all looked good and sealed. __________________ 2004 305/555 6sp.DIY cruise control, 373's, bd short shift,homemade boost elbow,autometer boost and egt, isspro fuel press.,zenon flares,quad race box or sp diesel stage 1 stacked with diablosport predator, modded tone ring,bd pusher pump(and yes the truck still runs if the oem pump dies)afe intake and tt,sp diesel overboost eliminator,DIY modded cp3,