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Go Back   Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum > 3rd Gen. Dodge Cummins 03-07 Common Rail Forums > 3rd Gen. Powertrain
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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chug buck buck dies.....help diagnosing

today I had to go look at a vehicle with a wholesaler I am trying to hook up with all was fine for the 100 miles drive there and 75 miles of it on the way home, seeing how we were already out and it had been a all day excursion, we decided to do our grocery shopping, so with a full truck of what used to be cold food the truck starts bucking and looses power like you would not believe,

I barely got it out of the highway and turned around , I managed to limp it into a auto zone, what luck I am thinking, I actually break down at a parts store (now you have to realize where I live, it is about 12 miles to town, and where I broke down was the next closest place which is about 18-20 miles away (nothing at all in between but highway)

just as I get int he drive she dies out , I hit the key and she fired up and pulled he rest of the way in, and there comes the check engine light (I think cool, at least I will have a starting point) so I go inside and this nice kid is at the counter, I ask is he will pulls the codes, so he comes out and says WOW that is a huge truck (I only have 35's on her) I say yea, I hope I don't have to pay for a wrecker! <grin>

Anyhow, the truck has code p2146, Cyl 1-3 shorted high or low, Autone scanner says circuit failure has been detected , probable cause,
1) low or high drivers shorted ( I assume they mean a relay?)
2)injector harness failure
3) faulty Fuel injector

Now some time ago i went to look at a used dodge (3 hours away) when I got there it had a similar issue when I drove it, only it was cyl 4,5,6,

I had read I think on this forum, it is a common issue to have the wiring harness go bad, I assume this means only the one under the valve cover?
is there any this else I should test before ordering what looks to be a 200 dollar harness?, I will be out of time again as I get to do Jury duty then leave for Iowa 1st of next month, so I don;t have time to make mistakes on stuff I have to wait days to get ordered in

I did a quick look but can not seem to find (and I thought I had before) find a diagnoses tree of what wires should read what ohms, hopefully I can test all of this easily tomorrow after I take care of some business in the am

so I guess the questions are
exactly what all do I need to test.. injectors?, wiring?, what part of the wiring? ect ect, I could really use some experienced help on this

also, while I have it apart is it really a good "idea" to replace all the injectors? and where can I buy good ones besides from dodge if I can afford to do it all?


funny thing is, I went and looked at his 2011 manual trans dually with 3777 miles on it....... maybe my truck got ticked off at me

thanks
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Id start with checking ur fca or lift pump.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwelds View Post
Id start with checking ur fca or lift pump.
fca? I'll have to look that up, even with the codes it set?

hmmm, well I guess with not enough fuel it could think the injectors are not working...


thanks
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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FCA = fuel control actuator. Its the only thing on ur cp3 that has a plug. It controls the flow into the high pressure side of the cp3.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yank the valve cover and disconnect the harness plugs on the right side as your facing the engine. Also remove the wires at the injector. Put your test leads together on your meter and see what it reads. Probably 1-3 ohm's .

Test each connector side to injector side to check the wires continuity. should be basically .1 - .9 ohms on most meter's. That's .1 - .9 plus the number from above when you put the two test leads together on lowest ohm scale.

Then check each wire with one test lead and engine ground with the other should be infinite or open to ground.

While it's open you could check the injector itself between the two terminals looking for .5 to 1.5 ohms. ((((((EEEDDDIIITTTT))))))) below .9 ohms End edit)))))but that does not really test the injector at all unless it's shorted or open. Also test each terminal to ground looking for open or infinity.
Only testing harness here.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Heard from another member that works at a dealer and when they change the valve cover harness the two control codes disappear. I had the same code and pulled and tested my gasket. Tested good so I cleaned it up and reinstalled it. That was about 8 months ago and haven't had a issue since.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwelds View Post
FCA = fuel control actuator. Its the only thing on ur cp3 that has a plug. It controls the flow into the high pressure side of the cp3.
thanks, I will look into how to test that
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waywardtravel View Post
Yank the valve cover and disconnect the harness plugs on the right side as your facing the engine. Also remove the wires at the injector. Put your test leads together on your meter and see what it reads. Probably 1-3 ohm's .

Test each connector side to injector side to check the wires continuity. should be basically .1 - .9 ohms on most meter's. That's .1 - .9 plus the number from above when you put the two test leads together on lowest ohm scale.

Then check each wire with one test lead and engine ground with the other should be infinite or open to ground.
your saying to test each wire to engine ground with the cover off and wires disconnected from the two connectors on right side of engine correct? shouldn't; i have at least the valve cover on the block then? or when I pull the cover are all these wires in the gasket? (I have not had one opened up yet)

Quote:

While it's open you could check the injector itself between the two terminals looking for .5 to 1.5 ohms. but that does not really test the injector at all unless it's shorted or open. Also test each terminal to ground looking for open or infinity.
Only testing harness here.
thank you, is there any thing else to test, should I pull injectors to have them tested? hate to sound like a complete newb, but If i think of something I may run into, I need to ask now as it will be hard to reach any one tomorrow (if all of you work all the time)

again, thanks for the tips, I sure need the help!
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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your saying to test each wire to engine ground with the cover off and wires disconnected from the two connectors on right side of engine correct? shouldn't; I have at least the valve cover on the block then? or when I pull the cover are all these wires in the gasket? (I have not had one opened up yet)

After you pull the aluminum valve cover the wires / harness is still embedded in the lower gasket and compressed. You will find three connectors on the right side just above the injector piping. Each one services two injectors. One could just be really corroded or oily. prove each wires path to where it connects to the injector with the injector side also disconnected.
Then test each wire to ground and hopefully they are all no contact. Be careful with the injector wires when tightening, the torque is extremely low and damaging the injector body by overtorquing is very easy to do.
Testing the injectors can only be done by removing and tested on HPCR test machine
It never hurts to do but your codes are not normally thrown with a bad injector. I also have not heard of a Cummins dying from a bad injector. No start yes but not stopping itself.

The 2146 code you are getting I cant find but it does fall between other pedal position codes. Usually when the pedal goes "dead" it starts to not change RPM when depressed and then jumps up in RPM quickly when pressed farther. Try to slowly press the pedal and watch the RPM for smooth change if you can get a smooth idle out of it now

If it's not electrical then it could be a dying lift pump or FCA as mentioned but the codes don't seem right to me at this point. Both can produce the erratic rpm though. What sucks about these trucks is the you don’t really have a way to test things like the FCA. They say remove it and shake it. If it clicks it’s good. I had a bad one that would “click” when I shook it hard.
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waywardtravel View Post
your saying to test each wire to engine ground with the cover off and wires disconnected from the two connectors on right side of engine correct? shouldn't; I have at least the valve cover on the block then? or when I pull the cover are all these wires in the gasket? (I have not had one opened up yet)

After you pull the aluminum valve cover the wires / harness is still embedded in the lower gasket and compressed. You will find three connectors on the right side just above the injector piping. Each one services two injectors. One could just be really corroded or oily. prove each wires path to where it connects to the injector with the injector side also disconnected.
Then test each wire to ground and hopefully they are all no contact. Be careful with the injector wires when tightening, the torque is extremely low and damaging the injector body by overtorquing is very easy to do.
Testing the injectors can only be done by removing and tested on HPCR test machine
It never hurts to do but your codes are not normally thrown with a bad injector. I also have not heard of a Cummins dying from a bad injector. No start yes but not stopping itself.

The 2146 code you are getting I cant find but it does fall between other pedal position codes. Usually when the pedal goes "dead" it starts to not change RPM when depressed and then jumps up in RPM quickly when pressed farther. Try to slowly press the pedal and watch the RPM for smooth change if you can get a smooth idle out of it now

If it's not electrical then it could be a dying lift pump or FCA as mentioned but the codes don't seem right to me at this point. Both can produce the erratic rpm though. What sucks about these trucks is the you don’t really have a way to test things like the FCA. They say remove it and shake it. If it clicks it’s good. I had a bad one that would “click” when I shook it hard.
ok thanks I get it now, I just found this code on our forum sticky it only says P2146 Fuel Injector Group 1 Supply Voltage Circuit

I have to go to a short meeting then I am taking this apart, I'm going to call around and see where I can buy a harness I guess just to see if anyone has it in stock anywhere

thanks!
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I threw that same code at the beginning of July. It turned out to be one of the injector solenoids went bad (can't remember which one) and made that injector take a dump. Luckily I had a warranty on the injectors so I just got it replaced and I was on my way after one day. Good luck!


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Old 08-15-2011, 09:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I threw that same code at the beginning of July. It turned out to be one of the injector solenoids went bad (can't remember which one) and made that injector take a dump. Luckily I had a warranty on the injectors so I just got it replaced and I was on my way after one day. Good luck!


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can I ask how you diagnoses the solenoid?
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