CP3 timing and results

mthisguy · 05-20-2007, 12:42 AM

I have been having (as many others have) an annoying engine knock. Mine occured only at idle and only after the engine warmed up. I read on another site that there has been success in getting rid of the noise by retiming the cp3. I tried it and I am happy to say it seems to work.

First off there are different causes for an engine knock, mine was a metallic sounding knock from the front left side of the engine. To change the timing is pretty simple. First remove the belt from in front of the access hole on the timing cover in front of the CP3. This will give you access to the nut that locks the timing gear to the CP3. Remove the nut and washer behind it(being carefull not to drop either inside, doing so will require much more work). Next you need a puller, steering wheel puller or small T bar will work to pull the gear loose from the CP3. Depending on how much dexterity you have you may or may not need to remove the upper radiator hose and bracket under it, in order to attach the puller to the gear. The fan is in the way of a standard length pusher bolt so I cut mine off, if you dont want to do that you can remove the fan. With puller installed and pusher bolt in place remove the gear from the cp3. The gear is a taper fit with no key way, so once the gear is loose all you have to do is rotate the engine to retime the cp3 in relation to the engine. I did mine twice before I found the magic spot, but it ended up about 60 degrees from where it was. Once you have rotated the engine re-install the washer and nut and torque to 77ftlbs(I used a ratchet on a dampener bolt to keep the engine from turning). Pictures are available in the service manual and will give you a good idea what is involved. It took me about 30 minutes to perform this procedure and I'm happy with the results.

Why does it work, well it seems that the cp3 being a piston pump behaves just like an engine, it takes force to push the piston on a compression stroke, and then after TDC it tries to spin faster(or easier) until the next compression stroke. When the engine is doing its compression stroke at the same time the CP3 is on its return stroke it can cause the gear teeth driving the cp3 to loosen and then slap back into contact causing noise.

__________________
06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

***MR4WLR*** · 05-20-2007, 01:07 AM

That's very interesting

__________________
Corey Ritter - Amity, OR
'04 Patriot Blue SRW 3500 QC 4X4 Laramie, 6spd, HO, Edge EZ, TST PowerMAXCR, Smarty, SPS 66, Rip's 4", AFE PG7 W/torque tube, FASS 150, Superlift leveling kit, Ride Rite's w/onboard air, Line-X. Torklift camper tie downs, fuel vent mod, CB, GPSmap 168, Buckstop/Warn 12,000 lb, KC Daylighters, MTL w/prolong in trans, Haisley DD, DiPricol gauges and Quad Commander. 77K
513/1043 Fast Specialties DDD 4-15-2006 TST-EZ stack, Quickest 1/4 mile ET 13.949 @ 96 MPH @ PIR
Hauls Lance "Lite" 1025 @4klbs
Wifes truck '98 Intense Blue 12V QC LB 4X4 Auto

***Camotanker*** · 05-20-2007, 01:42 AM

__________________
Monster Rig - (Website Click Here)
2003 CTD - REBORN

***Jeff K*** · 05-20-2007, 01:27 PM

__________________
2007.5, 6.7L HE, 68RFE, Smarty, Thuren Fab Suspension, Carli Air Bags, Toyo M/T's

2003, Smarty, Dr. P, Twins, PDR Stage 2 Head & Cam, F1 Springs & Stix, Floor-It CP3, Technicooler, Kelderman Lift, Thuren X-over Steering & Stabilizer, Toyo M/T's, NADP Race 48re, ATS Standalone Controller, EMS Manual Hubs

doug60 · 05-20-2007, 01:51 PM

Ive been trying to figure out, what the hell was making that hollow rap (knocking ) sound for months.
Ill put that on my list of things to.
thanks ,doug

__________________
2004.5, MPI Twins , Helix 2, Rail Mod , (Walbro pump),Three stage fuel
filtering, 5" aero to 4 " duals, optixs, Mass Diesel billet DTT Trans , Flex plate, Flux 3's Floor it stage 2, REVO RACE , DR PERF 2021,DSS, lorenz 5100

mudslinger · 05-20-2007, 02:36 PM

Hmm, anyone else try this? May help many with the "mystery knock" that seems so common but isn't injectors etc.

__________________
'03, 3500, 4x4, built auto, PDR Twins, Cool duals, TST,EZ, Smarty, FASS150,DDP 90's, Arson3, HID, 12" Rock Krawler Desert Race lift, 20* indexing ring, OUO drop kit, DSS, 14.5r Michelin XL's on 20" Black Widows, Thuren HD steering kit, Fox steering stabilizer

mthisguy · 05-20-2007, 05:43 PM

I'm not saying it's everyone's fix, but it certainly fixed mine. On a side note you might be able to turn the pump instead of the engine, but that would most likely require removing the upper radiator hose in order to get a good enough grip on the pump shaft, I could barely get 2 fingers on the end of the shaft so I didnt even try to turn the pump itself.

__________________
06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

05ctd · 05-25-2007, 12:50 PM

my truck makes this same knock. i plan on doing this tonight. i had a new cp3 put on by the dealer and i am thinking they did not get the pump and motor in time with each other. the very night i picked it up, my truck made this knocking noise, called the next day and they said a diesel knocks normally. basically they didnt understand that it was a different knock than normal and it started the night i picked it up with the new pump on it.

__________________
Silver 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4, muffler delete and chrome side molding.
Theres no "G" in Cummins,

hole!

slategrey05 · 05-26-2007, 08:09 AM

I have noted the same sounds but blamed it on the ulsd fuel. noise started at the same time. sounds like I need to check

__________________
2005 quadcab 4x4,373 ratio,stock 48re ats pan, green filter,line-x, silverline, prodigy,b&w hitch, fs2500

05ctd · 05-30-2007, 12:17 PM

MTHISGUY, can you provide use with more detailed destructions on this topic please. it would be much apprietiated:thumbsup

__________________
Silver 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4, muffler delete and chrome side molding.
Theres no "G" in Cummins,

hole!

mthisguy · 05-30-2007, 10:54 PM

Here is the linkhttp://http://www.cumminsforum.com/f...lling-cp3.html
Give instructions for removing the drive gear, just dont follow all the way through and remove the pump.:thumbsup Turn the pump or engine 30 to 60 degrees and put back together. 1st try may not hit the magic spot, mine took 2 tries.

__________________
06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

05ctd · 05-31-2007, 02:13 PM

thanks. but how do you know when you are at 30-60 degrees. or is it when you can start the motor and the knocking is gone. sorry for my lack of intelligence.

The link does not work also.

__________________
Silver 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4, muffler delete and chrome side molding.
Theres no "G" in Cummins,

hole!

Last edited by 05ctd : 05-31-2007 at 03:37 PM.

05-20-2007, 12:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
mthisguy Cummins Nut Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Wyoming Posts: 319 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post mthisguy's Truck Pics	CP3 timing and results I have been having (as many others have) an annoying engine knock. Mine occured only at idle and only after the engine warmed up. I read on another site that there has been success in getting rid of the noise by retiming the cp3. I tried it and I am happy to say it seems to work. First off there are different causes for an engine knock, mine was a metallic sounding knock from the front left side of the engine. To change the timing is pretty simple. First remove the belt from in front of the access hole on the timing cover in front of the CP3. This will give you access to the nut that locks the timing gear to the CP3. Remove the nut and washer behind it(being carefull not to drop either inside, doing so will require much more work). Next you need a puller, steering wheel puller or small T bar will work to pull the gear loose from the CP3. Depending on how much dexterity you have you may or may not need to remove the upper radiator hose and bracket under it, in order to attach the puller to the gear. The fan is in the way of a standard length pusher bolt so I cut mine off, if you dont want to do that you can remove the fan. With puller installed and pusher bolt in place remove the gear from the cp3. The gear is a taper fit with no key way, so once the gear is loose all you have to do is rotate the engine to retime the cp3 in relation to the engine. I did mine twice before I found the magic spot, but it ended up about 60 degrees from where it was. Once you have rotated the engine re-install the washer and nut and torque to 77ftlbs(I used a ratchet on a dampener bolt to keep the engine from turning). Pictures are available in the service manual and will give you a good idea what is involved. It took me about 30 minutes to perform this procedure and I'm happy with the results. Why does it work, well it seems that the cp3 being a piston pump behaves just like an engine, it takes force to push the piston on a compression stroke, and then after TDC it tries to spin faster(or easier) until the next compression stroke. When the engine is doing its compression stroke at the same time the CP3 is on its return stroke it can cause the gear teeth driving the cp3 to loosen and then slap back into contact causing noise. __________________ 06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

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05-20-2007, 01:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
*MR4WLR* Former Staff Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Amity, OR Posts: 3,780 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post MR4WLR's Truck Pics	That's very interesting __________________ Corey Ritter - Amity, OR '04 Patriot Blue SRW 3500 QC 4X4 Laramie, 6spd, HO, Edge EZ, TST PowerMAXCR, Smarty, SPS 66, Rip's 4", AFE PG7 W/torque tube, FASS 150, Superlift leveling kit, Ride Rite's w/onboard air, Line-X. Torklift camper tie downs, fuel vent mod, CB, GPSmap 168, Buckstop/Warn 12,000 lb, KC Daylighters, MTL w/prolong in trans, Haisley DD, DiPricol gauges and Quad Commander. 77K 513/1043 Fast Specialties DDD 4-15-2006 TST-EZ stack, Quickest 1/4 mile ET 13.949 @ 96 MPH @ PIR Hauls Lance "Lite" 1025 @4klbs Wifes truck '98 Intense Blue 12V QC LB 4X4 Auto

05-20-2007, 01:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
*Camotanker* Diesel Freak Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 619 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Camotanker's Truck Pics	__________________ Monster Rig - (Website Click Here) 2003 CTD - REBORN

05-20-2007, 01:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Jeff K* Cummins Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Calgary Posts: 289 Thanks: 0 Thanked 10 Times in 2 Posts Jeff K's Truck Pics	__________________ 2007.5, 6.7L HE, 68RFE, Smarty, Thuren Fab Suspension, Carli Air Bags, Toyo M/T's 2003, Smarty, Dr. P, Twins, PDR Stage 2 Head & Cam, F1 Springs & Stix, Floor-It CP3, Technicooler, Kelderman Lift, Thuren X-over Steering & Stabilizer, Toyo M/T's, NADP Race 48re, ATS Standalone Controller, EMS Manual Hubs

05-20-2007, 01:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
doug60 Cummins Fan Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 84 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts doug60's Truck Pics	Ive been trying to figure out, what the hell was making that hollow rap (knocking ) sound for months. Ill put that on my list of things to. thanks ,doug __________________ 2004.5, MPI Twins , Helix 2, Rail Mod , (Walbro pump),Three stage fuel filtering, 5" aero to 4 " duals, optixs, Mass Diesel billet DTT Trans , Flex plate, Flux 3's Floor it stage 2, REVO RACE , DR PERF 2021,DSS, lorenz 5100

05-20-2007, 02:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
mudslinger Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 189 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts mudslinger's Truck Pics	Hmm, anyone else try this? May help many with the "mystery knock" that seems so common but isn't injectors etc. __________________ '03, 3500, 4x4, built auto, PDR Twins, Cool duals, TST,EZ, Smarty, FASS150,DDP 90's, Arson3, HID, 12" Rock Krawler Desert Race lift, 20* indexing ring, OUO drop kit, DSS, 14.5r Michelin XL's on 20" Black Widows, Thuren HD steering kit, Fox steering stabilizer

05-20-2007, 05:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
mthisguy Cummins Nut Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Wyoming Posts: 319 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post mthisguy's Truck Pics	I'm not saying it's everyone's fix, but it certainly fixed mine. On a side note you might be able to turn the pump instead of the engine, but that would most likely require removing the upper radiator hose in order to get a good enough grip on the pump shaft, I could barely get 2 fingers on the end of the shaft so I didnt even try to turn the pump itself. __________________ 06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

05-25-2007, 12:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
05ctd Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 163 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts 05ctd's Truck Pics	my truck makes this same knock. i plan on doing this tonight. i had a new cp3 put on by the dealer and i am thinking they did not get the pump and motor in time with each other. the very night i picked it up, my truck made this knocking noise, called the next day and they said a diesel knocks normally. basically they didnt understand that it was a different knock than normal and it started the night i picked it up with the new pump on it. __________________ Silver 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4, muffler delete and chrome side molding. Theres no "G" in Cummins, hole!

05-26-2007, 08:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
slategrey05 Cummins Fan Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: IN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts slategrey05's Truck Pics	I have noted the same sounds but blamed it on the ulsd fuel. noise started at the same time. sounds like I need to check __________________ 2005 quadcab 4x4,373 ratio,stock 48re ats pan, green filter,line-x, silverline, prodigy,b&w hitch, fs2500

05-30-2007, 12:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
05ctd Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 163 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts 05ctd's Truck Pics	MTHISGUY, can you provide use with more detailed destructions on this topic please. it would be much apprietiated:thumbsup __________________ Silver 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4, muffler delete and chrome side molding. Theres no "G" in Cummins, hole!

05-30-2007, 10:54 PM	#11 (permalink)
mthisguy Cummins Nut Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Wyoming Posts: 319 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post mthisguy's Truck Pics	Here is the linkhttp://http://www.cumminsforum.com/f...lling-cp3.html Give instructions for removing the drive gear, just dont follow all the way through and remove the pump.:thumbsup Turn the pump or engine 30 to 60 degrees and put back together. 1st try may not hit the magic spot, mine took 2 tries. __________________ 06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

05-31-2007, 02:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
05ctd Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 163 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts 05ctd's Truck Pics	thanks. but how do you know when you are at 30-60 degrees. or is it when you can start the motor and the knocking is gone. sorry for my lack of intelligence. The link does not work also. __________________ Silver 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4, muffler delete and chrome side molding. Theres no "G" in Cummins, hole! Last edited by 05ctd : 05-31-2007 at 03:37 PM.