CP3 timing and results - Page 3

emp1134 · 06-20-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj42

I did and no luck for me. If I get on it pretty hard and then back off but still give it light throttle I get knock still. This has been going on for 100,000 miles so I don't think its hurting anything but it is annoying. I have replaced my pusher pump with a glacier 392 pump, added 20 micron and a 2 micron filter(plus my stock fuel filter), replaced FCA,replaced cascade valve(overflow),replaced my injector with F1's and have tried every additive under the sun. I still think the problem is a timing issue and it caused by my ECM or something between the CP3 pump or what ever controls the fuel that goes into each injector. Anybody have any suggestions ? Thanks.

this was to fix the knocking noise some trucks makes @ idle. Mine makes the rattling noise at light throttle as well, but at least now it doesn't knock or tick idling. Mine sounds just a quiet as my buddies new 07 5.9 and I've got over 100k on it.

__________________
2006 3500 Black Sport QC 4x4 G56 dually, Amsoil in everything w/bypass,SB CON OFE,Mag-Hytec on rear, pyro boost & rear diff temp gauges, AeroTurbine 4040, high idle, K&N cold air w/EaAU 4095, QUAD boost fooler, Rancho RS5K's, DS predator/puck,

:

monterrey · 07-30-2007, 01:07 AM

mtyhisguy, tanks i have the same problem .... GRACIAS

mthisguy · 07-30-2007, 11:27 AM

Glad to be of help.

__________________
06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

feelmecummin · 10-17-2007, 10:30 AM

cj42 your rattle would most likely get worse by switching to F1s. larger injectors advance timing. what are you running for electronics?

__________________
'03 3500 4wd- HTS Billet Trans, Stage 4 CP3, SB66, TST, Smarty, F1 Flux 4's, Custom Paint
'95 2500 2wd - Regular Cab, Short Bed - Garmon Billet Trans - Needs Sponsored!

triton · 10-17-2007, 08:25 PM

I know this post is quite old but, lets see if anyone if still around...

You know... I thought you had something here for a little while

My rattle isn't at idle like yours and I'm having a heck of a time figuring it out. I found your post and thought cool it makes sense.

But then I got to thinking, my second CP3 is belt driven so there's no way you could adjust the timing on it. It's just a pump being driven by the engine.

I asked around and others agreed that by moving the CP3 gear will do nothing. It's just a gear linked to the cam shaft which drives it. If you rotate the gear or pump shaft on the CP3.... it doesn't move anything. It would be like rotating the spocket on a bicycle.

I'm not trying to down play what you did here, I just had to question whether it really does anything or not before I went through the trouble. You said it helped your knock so I gotta wonder ??

__________________

www.BlackPatchDiesel.com
Garmon Diesel / Airwerks / High Tech Turbo
AirDog / Glacier Diesel / NADM / XSPower

**WICKED DIESELS** · 10-17-2007, 08:58 PM

No BS, it works, our 05, sounded like it was going to fly apart. I pulled the CP3, when I put it back on the sound was gone. The gear driven pump, will end up in the same place every revoluton.

__________________
http://www.wickeddiesels.com

http://www.modifiedcp3.com

Compound Turbo Kits S300/S400 Singles CP3's and mods Injectors Fuel Systems Coolant Bypass Kits Bosch Parts

triton · 10-17-2007, 09:24 PM

I may try it to see what happens. There's so many variables to where the rattle could be coming from... have to look at the all.

You would think though, if it did need to be in time with the engine, there'd be timing marks to line up ??

__________________

www.BlackPatchDiesel.com
Garmon Diesel / Airwerks / High Tech Turbo
AirDog / Glacier Diesel / NADM / XSPower

05ctd · 10-18-2007, 01:57 PM

i talked to a diesel mechanic about doing this because i had planned on doing it. like what triton had said, he said he didnt think it would resolve the problem either. i have yet to try for myself, but am very curious. plus i have been without my truck for the last month.

__________________
Silver 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4, muffler delete and chrome side molding.
Theres no "G" in Cummins,

hole!

**WICKED DIESELS** · 10-18-2007, 02:43 PM

First of all it is not "timing, as you normally think of it" as the engine crankshaft rotates, so does the injection pump, they, by having gears of an equally dividable number of teeth, end up in the same location on each power stroke. It is the relationship between the particular cycle of the injection pump, versus where the piston in the engine is located, like nearing TDC on overlap, where there is little loading. It is easiest explained, much like lugging your manual trans in too high of a gear, the noise you hear is called gear clash. This is much the same as some of the engine noises on common rails due to the same type of cycling sound. If there is a condition of negative crankshaft load, or gear driven high pressure pump backlash, this can be transmitted through the engine and sound like an injector knock. Is this the answer to what everyone is experiencing, who knows. It has worked on several trucks that we have had the CP3 off of, it has also been a recommended repair to some, who have had success and eliminated the knocking sound.

__________________
http://www.wickeddiesels.com

http://www.modifiedcp3.com

Compound Turbo Kits S300/S400 Singles CP3's and mods Injectors Fuel Systems Coolant Bypass Kits Bosch Parts

mthisguy · 10-18-2007, 04:16 PM

The gear train noise is very different from the average fuel knock, if you have heard it, its easily distinguisheable from most other noises these engines make. The previous post is correct also, its not fuel timing but gear timing and backlash thats causes the knock.

__________________
06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

vlancaster · 10-18-2007, 04:32 PM

im curious as to what this noise sounds like, i got a rattle/ticking/knocking, noticible around 1000-1500 rpm's, and taking off very slowly under 30mph? the dealer said it was nothing to worry about, but they still wanted 45bucks to look at it..any help

__________________
04.5 HO edge jammer turbo, magnasuck muffler, homemade 4" intake w/ amsoil filter. PPE programemr

coffee pot · 10-18-2007, 08:31 PM

My truck has more of a rattle at cruising speeds which dissapears instantly when I mash it. It sounds like the valve train suddenly being muted or something. Is this the knock you are talking about?

__________________
2007 5.9 h/o, 4x4 Big Horn, Quad Cab 2500, 6 speed manual,FLAME RED!
STR8 piped and lovin it! Silencer Ring mia

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07-30-2007, 01:07 AM	#26 (permalink)
monterrey Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts monterrey's Truck Pics	mtyhisguy, tanks i have the same problem .... GRACIAS

07-30-2007, 11:27 AM	#27 (permalink)
mthisguy Cummins Nut Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Wyoming Posts: 319 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post mthisguy's Truck Pics	Glad to be of help. __________________ 06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

10-17-2007, 10:30 AM	#28 (permalink)
feelmecummin Diesel Freak Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rossville, IN Posts: 718 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts feelmecummin's Truck Pics	cj42 your rattle would most likely get worse by switching to F1s. larger injectors advance timing. what are you running for electronics? __________________ '03 3500 4wd- HTS Billet Trans, Stage 4 CP3, SB66, TST, Smarty, F1 Flux 4's, Custom Paint '95 2500 2wd - Regular Cab, Short Bed - Garmon Billet Trans - Needs Sponsored!

10-17-2007, 08:25 PM	#29 (permalink)
triton NADM Advisory Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NC mountains Posts: 1,428 Thanks: 1 Thanked 62 Times in 55 Posts triton's Truck Pics	I know this post is quite old but, lets see if anyone if still around... You know... I thought you had something here for a little while My rattle isn't at idle like yours and I'm having a heck of a time figuring it out. I found your post and thought cool it makes sense. But then I got to thinking, my second CP3 is belt driven so there's no way you could adjust the timing on it. It's just a pump being driven by the engine. I asked around and others agreed that by moving the CP3 gear will do nothing. It's just a gear linked to the cam shaft which drives it. If you rotate the gear or pump shaft on the CP3.... it doesn't move anything. It would be like rotating the spocket on a bicycle. I'm not trying to down play what you did here, I just had to question whether it really does anything or not before I went through the trouble. You said it helped your knock so I gotta wonder ?? __________________ www.BlackPatchDiesel.com Garmon Diesel / Airwerks / High Tech Turbo AirDog / Glacier Diesel / NADM / XSPower

10-17-2007, 08:58 PM	#30 (permalink)
WICKED DIESELS WICKED DIESELS Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bristol, Va Posts: 1,879 Thanks: 6 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts WICKED DIESELS's Truck Pics	No BS, it works, our 05, sounded like it was going to fly apart. I pulled the CP3, when I put it back on the sound was gone. The gear driven pump, will end up in the same place every revoluton. __________________ http://www.wickeddiesels.com http://www.modifiedcp3.com *Compound Turbo Kits S300/S400 Singles CP3's and mods Injectors Fuel Systems Coolant Bypass Kits Bosch Parts*

10-17-2007, 09:24 PM	#31 (permalink)
triton NADM Advisory Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NC mountains Posts: 1,428 Thanks: 1 Thanked 62 Times in 55 Posts triton's Truck Pics	I may try it to see what happens. There's so many variables to where the rattle could be coming from... have to look at the all. You would think though, if it did need to be in time with the engine, there'd be timing marks to line up ?? __________________ www.BlackPatchDiesel.com Garmon Diesel / Airwerks / High Tech Turbo AirDog / Glacier Diesel / NADM / XSPower

10-18-2007, 01:57 PM	#32 (permalink)
05ctd Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 163 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts 05ctd's Truck Pics	i talked to a diesel mechanic about doing this because i had planned on doing it. like what triton had said, he said he didnt think it would resolve the problem either. i have yet to try for myself, but am very curious. plus i have been without my truck for the last month. __________________ Silver 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4, muffler delete and chrome side molding. Theres no "G" in Cummins, hole!

10-18-2007, 02:43 PM	#33 (permalink)
WICKED DIESELS WICKED DIESELS Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bristol, Va Posts: 1,879 Thanks: 6 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts WICKED DIESELS's Truck Pics	First of all it is not "timing, as you normally think of it" as the engine crankshaft rotates, so does the injection pump, they, by having gears of an equally dividable number of teeth, end up in the same location on each power stroke. It is the relationship between the particular cycle of the injection pump, versus where the piston in the engine is located, like nearing TDC on overlap, where there is little loading. It is easiest explained, much like lugging your manual trans in too high of a gear, the noise you hear is called gear clash. This is much the same as some of the engine noises on common rails due to the same type of cycling sound. If there is a condition of negative crankshaft load, or gear driven high pressure pump backlash, this can be transmitted through the engine and sound like an injector knock. Is this the answer to what everyone is experiencing, who knows. It has worked on several trucks that we have had the CP3 off of, it has also been a recommended repair to some, who have had success and eliminated the knocking sound. __________________ http://www.wickeddiesels.com http://www.modifiedcp3.com *Compound Turbo Kits S300/S400 Singles CP3's and mods Injectors Fuel Systems Coolant Bypass Kits Bosch Parts*

10-18-2007, 04:16 PM	#34 (permalink)
mthisguy Cummins Nut Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Wyoming Posts: 319 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post mthisguy's Truck Pics	The gear train noise is very different from the average fuel knock, if you have heard it, its easily distinguisheable from most other noises these engines make. The previous post is correct also, its not fuel timing but gear timing and backlash thats causes the knock. __________________ 06 48RE megacab, not cummings equipped but Cummins powered. Edge Juice/Attitude, mod'd intank fuel pump, Fleetguard FS20000 fuel filter and external lift pump regulator, modified intake housing, Goerend tranny/billet input, GDP intake horn.

10-18-2007, 04:32 PM	#35 (permalink)
vlancaster Cummins Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: b-town, ark Posts: 162 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts vlancaster's Truck Pics	im curious as to what this noise sounds like, i got a rattle/ticking/knocking, noticible around 1000-1500 rpm's, and taking off very slowly under 30mph? the dealer said it was nothing to worry about, but they still wanted 45bucks to look at it..any help __________________ 04.5 HO edge jammer turbo, magnasuck muffler, homemade 4" intake w/ amsoil filter. PPE programemr

10-18-2007, 08:31 PM	#36 (permalink)
coffee pot Cummins Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts coffee pot's Truck Pics	My truck has more of a rattle at cruising speeds which dissapears instantly when I mash it. It sounds like the valve train suddenly being muted or something. Is this the knock you are talking about? __________________ 2007 5.9 h/o, 4x4 Big Horn, Quad Cab 2500, 6 speed manual,FLAME RED! STR8 piped and lovin it! Silencer Ring mia