Ok, I have been in contact with 2 people from Bosch. A lot of you arent going to like this, but this isnt my opinion anymore, this is fact, as shown by the emails from BOSCH, and jkidds/DAP's own words and actions.
I have attached 3 screen shots of 3 emails involving 2 different representatives from Bosch. I have redacted all of the personal information out of the emails, to prevent anyone from getting ignorant, and deciding they want to harass anyone. I did leave the email domain (@us.bosch.com) visible to prove these emails did indeed come from Bosch. If you have questins about your certain injectors you bought from DAP, please do not message me asking me about them. I am providing all the information, its up to you to make a decision as to what you do. I think I have all my quotes from Bosch in italics to make it easier to see what they said. Again, you can refer to the attachments for proof. I hope they show up ok. So, lets get started....
1. DAP is not even an authorized BOSCH or BMS distributor/re-seller! There only 2 BMS distributors in the U.S. and they are Exergy and S&S. According to Bosch, as far as they know, DAP doesnt even have an agreement with either Exergy or S&S, to be buying BMS injectors from them either. So, to all the people who paid for "Brand New BMS" injectors... you were defrauded, as DAP had no access to the injectors to begin with. If the cant buy them, they cant sell them.... plain and simple.
2. jkidd has stated that Bosch is picky about part numbers and naming/descriptions etc.... so they had to change a few things to keep them happy. They used this as an excuse for advertising one thing, and delivering another. He even said "5) Bosch is very picky about using part #'s online and asks internet sellers who are not under some specific contracts to change the description or part # (as we use "OE" for genuine Bosch) 6) Bosch even goes as far as to request some places to alter images so there is no Bosch logo on parts". This is a lie. What jkidd failed to mention, is the reason they had to change so many descriptions on their website, is they were sent a cease and desist last year from Bosch, for continuing to "inferring they are an authorized reseller of Bosch or Bosch Motorsports products".
3. The 007 injector from one of the threads in question is indeed a European spec injector that was NEVER installed in any Dodge truck, period. The injectors from the thread in question, were indeed produced 7yrs ago, and are 7yr old injectors, produced in 2010.
4. Bosch also stated the above mentioned 007 injector, in the above mentioned thread, were "used" injectors, and not new.... "the injectors shown are previously used injector bodies and nuts".
5. Bosch also stated that the one ******* injector (B 445 120 262) that DAP sent to the OP of the thread in question "is the marking of a preproduction sample injector, that was never sold for general use, so most likely came from an engineering test engine. Again, not a new injector, but one that was reworked".
6. OEM does NOT mean used/reman'd as jkidd wants you to believe. OEM is a specific term, that means just that... Original Equipment Manufacturer. There is only one OEM of the Bosch injector for our trucks, and that is Bosch themselves. Now, you can use OEM components (Bosch doesnt manuf all the components themselves) if you know how/where to buy the components from the people who sell them to Bosch. And, you can use these components you purchased from the OEM component manuf. BUT, you have to designate the difference. Bosch stated "You are correct, once a third party reworks or modifies a component assembled by Bosch, they can no longer claim it is a new Bosch assembly. Again, that being said, they can state they used new Bosch parts in the assembly if that is the case, but they cannot state they are Bosch assemblies". DAP has proven habits of mislabeling things, to mislead people. There is only one OEM reman, and that is Bosch. If a company modifies that OEM Bosch reman in any way..... see #7...
7. DAP sells injectors labeled as DAP OEM. This is wrong, They are either OEM (Bosch New or Bosch Reman), or Reman with OEM components (NOT OEM, but listed as reman'd with OEM/Bosch components) or DAP injectors. They cannot be any combination of those 3 things.... they are 1 or the other or the other. If they are OEM, they are as they came from Bosch, and not tampered with. If they are reman'd with OEM components, by anyone other than Bosch, then they cannot be listed as OEM. If they are DAP reman's, then they cannot be listed as OEM. Once an OEM injector is modified in any way, it can no longer be referred to as OEM, as it is no longer abiding by OEM specs. OEM can be brand new Bosch, or new Bosch remans. Anything else, is NOT OEM.
8. DAP and Injectors direct claim to sell "Brand New Bosch" injectors at a discounted price, as they dont believe in all that markup, that others sell "Brand New Bosch" injectors for. Another lie. When asked if there is any way companies could be selling Brand New Injectors this cheap, Bosch specifically stated "Bosch can confirm that DAP and Injectors Direct are not authorized resellers of Bosch components and do not enjoy the same discount structure our authorized resellers do". So the truth is, the other guys are authorized, and even with the discount Bosch gives them for that, they still have to sell for higher prices than Injectors Direct and DAP claim to? DAP and Injectors Direct can sell cheaper than companies that get discounts from Bosch? I call BS.
9. When asked what would be the best way for people to ensure they are getting complete "Brand New Bosch" injectors, and to avoid all this fraud and misrepresentation by vendors in the industry, Bosch responded "They can go to an authorized Bosch reseller. The can go to Choose the Right Diesel Injector to find out more and find their closest Authorized Bosch reseller".
10. We had a representative from Industrial Injection come on here more than once, and try to help out and explain a few things. Turns out what he said was right also, but only a few of us believed him.
11. In an attempt to down play his sale of the 007 injectors (and one ******* injector) jkidd said "The many others were stainless bodies and new production". Exergy, one of the most trusted names in the business states in their FAQ: "Stainless steel bodies do not exist, the 5.9 series injectors have been changed over to the same material used for the higher pressure rated 6.7 series injectors. With the new body material the new 5.9s are stronger but still not as good as the 6.7 injector which has been designed from the ground up to handle higher injection pressures. In terms of reliability and strength the new body material is an improvement over the original. But is not, repeat, is not stainless steel". Yet another lie by jkidd.
12. To show about pricing new injectors and remans etc... Exergy also states in their FAQ "Q: Do you remanufacture injectors? A: At this time we do not remanufacture injectors. The time and component costs of doing the job correctly are equivalent to purchasing a new Bosch remanufactured unit. From what we have seen to date they are the only ones remanufacturing them correctly". So you all thinking you are getting a new injector for the price of a reman, think again. And you all getting remans for less than a Bosch OEM reman, are not getting quality. Again, Industrial Injection tried to explain this to everyone, and no one listened.
13. When asked about remans, Exergy stated in their FAQ: "Q: Are reman injectors any good? A: When done properly (and at this time in our opinion, the only proper remanufacturing is done by Bosch) the injectors are as good as new and better than the original injector design. All wear components have been replaced with new, and in most cases improved parts, making remans an excellent value."
14. BOSCH and the Bosch magneto logo are registered trademarks. Companies (C&D specifically referring to DAP's cease & desist order) misleading people by using the word BOSCH in all caps, was referred to like this by Bosch: "This would indicate they took head of the C&D we submitted and understand the implications of violating Bosch’s trademarks. The Bosch magneto logo and capitalized BOSCH are registered trademarks of Robert Bosch. As for the other components they claim to be new OE, the non-capitalized Bosch is not a trademark of Bosch, but a proper name which is allowed to be used under US law if they are Bosch products. Again, they are not an authorized Bosch reseller, their source of material put the authenticity under question. With their other products, they only claim them to be OE components and not specifically Bosch. If they purchase components from the OE dealer/distribution/manufacturer, then they can claim they are OE".
So, in conclusion, there is just SO much more that could be said, but I dont see the point. The facts obtained from Bosch itself proves DAP is a dishonest company that has been lying to people and selling them the wrong injectors for a long time. So much to the extent that Bosch had to send them a cease and desist order. jkidd is even so arrogant that he came to this board with his "if I say this is how it is, then this is how it is"... attitude, and talking about misinformation. When indeed it is he and his company, that are the ones guilty of misinformation. He stated to email him if you had any questions. Of course he wanted you to email him, rather than speak up in a thread, where he would be outed for all his lies, and people couldnt see the even more lies, he was feeding to unhappy customers.
To all the people who mocked myself and Smelonas, I hope you are happy. Rather than using a little common sense, doing a little homework, and looking at the facts.... you chose to make fun of us. Statements like "wild speculation bordering on paranoid delusions" or .... "8 pages of runaway insanity of conspiracy theories!"... were used. Rather than doing any homework to find the same facts/information that was available to us "insane and delusional conspiracy theorists"..... you chose blind and biased support of jkidd/DAP.... which only allowed them to be able tokeep lying to people over and over, rather than out him and DAP.
There is a LOT of information in this post. I have tried to proofread it, but my apologies if you find any typos or quotes missing.
I have attached 3 screen shots of 3 emails involving 2 different representatives from Bosch. I have redacted all of the personal information out of the emails, to prevent anyone from getting ignorant, and deciding they want to harass anyone. I did leave the email domain (@us.bosch.com) visible to prove these emails did indeed come from Bosch. If you have questins about your certain injectors you bought from DAP, please do not message me asking me about them. I am providing all the information, its up to you to make a decision as to what you do. I think I have all my quotes from Bosch in italics to make it easier to see what they said. Again, you can refer to the attachments for proof. I hope they show up ok. So, lets get started....
1. DAP is not even an authorized BOSCH or BMS distributor/re-seller! There only 2 BMS distributors in the U.S. and they are Exergy and S&S. According to Bosch, as far as they know, DAP doesnt even have an agreement with either Exergy or S&S, to be buying BMS injectors from them either. So, to all the people who paid for "Brand New BMS" injectors... you were defrauded, as DAP had no access to the injectors to begin with. If the cant buy them, they cant sell them.... plain and simple.
2. jkidd has stated that Bosch is picky about part numbers and naming/descriptions etc.... so they had to change a few things to keep them happy. They used this as an excuse for advertising one thing, and delivering another. He even said "5) Bosch is very picky about using part #'s online and asks internet sellers who are not under some specific contracts to change the description or part # (as we use "OE" for genuine Bosch) 6) Bosch even goes as far as to request some places to alter images so there is no Bosch logo on parts". This is a lie. What jkidd failed to mention, is the reason they had to change so many descriptions on their website, is they were sent a cease and desist last year from Bosch, for continuing to "inferring they are an authorized reseller of Bosch or Bosch Motorsports products".
3. The 007 injector from one of the threads in question is indeed a European spec injector that was NEVER installed in any Dodge truck, period. The injectors from the thread in question, were indeed produced 7yrs ago, and are 7yr old injectors, produced in 2010.
4. Bosch also stated the above mentioned 007 injector, in the above mentioned thread, were "used" injectors, and not new.... "the injectors shown are previously used injector bodies and nuts".
5. Bosch also stated that the one ******* injector (B 445 120 262) that DAP sent to the OP of the thread in question "is the marking of a preproduction sample injector, that was never sold for general use, so most likely came from an engineering test engine. Again, not a new injector, but one that was reworked".
6. OEM does NOT mean used/reman'd as jkidd wants you to believe. OEM is a specific term, that means just that... Original Equipment Manufacturer. There is only one OEM of the Bosch injector for our trucks, and that is Bosch themselves. Now, you can use OEM components (Bosch doesnt manuf all the components themselves) if you know how/where to buy the components from the people who sell them to Bosch. And, you can use these components you purchased from the OEM component manuf. BUT, you have to designate the difference. Bosch stated "You are correct, once a third party reworks or modifies a component assembled by Bosch, they can no longer claim it is a new Bosch assembly. Again, that being said, they can state they used new Bosch parts in the assembly if that is the case, but they cannot state they are Bosch assemblies". DAP has proven habits of mislabeling things, to mislead people. There is only one OEM reman, and that is Bosch. If a company modifies that OEM Bosch reman in any way..... see #7...
7. DAP sells injectors labeled as DAP OEM. This is wrong, They are either OEM (Bosch New or Bosch Reman), or Reman with OEM components (NOT OEM, but listed as reman'd with OEM/Bosch components) or DAP injectors. They cannot be any combination of those 3 things.... they are 1 or the other or the other. If they are OEM, they are as they came from Bosch, and not tampered with. If they are reman'd with OEM components, by anyone other than Bosch, then they cannot be listed as OEM. If they are DAP reman's, then they cannot be listed as OEM. Once an OEM injector is modified in any way, it can no longer be referred to as OEM, as it is no longer abiding by OEM specs. OEM can be brand new Bosch, or new Bosch remans. Anything else, is NOT OEM.
8. DAP and Injectors direct claim to sell "Brand New Bosch" injectors at a discounted price, as they dont believe in all that markup, that others sell "Brand New Bosch" injectors for. Another lie. When asked if there is any way companies could be selling Brand New Injectors this cheap, Bosch specifically stated "Bosch can confirm that DAP and Injectors Direct are not authorized resellers of Bosch components and do not enjoy the same discount structure our authorized resellers do". So the truth is, the other guys are authorized, and even with the discount Bosch gives them for that, they still have to sell for higher prices than Injectors Direct and DAP claim to? DAP and Injectors Direct can sell cheaper than companies that get discounts from Bosch? I call BS.
9. When asked what would be the best way for people to ensure they are getting complete "Brand New Bosch" injectors, and to avoid all this fraud and misrepresentation by vendors in the industry, Bosch responded "They can go to an authorized Bosch reseller. The can go to Choose the Right Diesel Injector to find out more and find their closest Authorized Bosch reseller".
10. We had a representative from Industrial Injection come on here more than once, and try to help out and explain a few things. Turns out what he said was right also, but only a few of us believed him.
11. In an attempt to down play his sale of the 007 injectors (and one ******* injector) jkidd said "The many others were stainless bodies and new production". Exergy, one of the most trusted names in the business states in their FAQ: "Stainless steel bodies do not exist, the 5.9 series injectors have been changed over to the same material used for the higher pressure rated 6.7 series injectors. With the new body material the new 5.9s are stronger but still not as good as the 6.7 injector which has been designed from the ground up to handle higher injection pressures. In terms of reliability and strength the new body material is an improvement over the original. But is not, repeat, is not stainless steel". Yet another lie by jkidd.
12. To show about pricing new injectors and remans etc... Exergy also states in their FAQ "Q: Do you remanufacture injectors? A: At this time we do not remanufacture injectors. The time and component costs of doing the job correctly are equivalent to purchasing a new Bosch remanufactured unit. From what we have seen to date they are the only ones remanufacturing them correctly". So you all thinking you are getting a new injector for the price of a reman, think again. And you all getting remans for less than a Bosch OEM reman, are not getting quality. Again, Industrial Injection tried to explain this to everyone, and no one listened.
13. When asked about remans, Exergy stated in their FAQ: "Q: Are reman injectors any good? A: When done properly (and at this time in our opinion, the only proper remanufacturing is done by Bosch) the injectors are as good as new and better than the original injector design. All wear components have been replaced with new, and in most cases improved parts, making remans an excellent value."
14. BOSCH and the Bosch magneto logo are registered trademarks. Companies (C&D specifically referring to DAP's cease & desist order) misleading people by using the word BOSCH in all caps, was referred to like this by Bosch: "This would indicate they took head of the C&D we submitted and understand the implications of violating Bosch’s trademarks. The Bosch magneto logo and capitalized BOSCH are registered trademarks of Robert Bosch. As for the other components they claim to be new OE, the non-capitalized Bosch is not a trademark of Bosch, but a proper name which is allowed to be used under US law if they are Bosch products. Again, they are not an authorized Bosch reseller, their source of material put the authenticity under question. With their other products, they only claim them to be OE components and not specifically Bosch. If they purchase components from the OE dealer/distribution/manufacturer, then they can claim they are OE".
So, in conclusion, there is just SO much more that could be said, but I dont see the point. The facts obtained from Bosch itself proves DAP is a dishonest company that has been lying to people and selling them the wrong injectors for a long time. So much to the extent that Bosch had to send them a cease and desist order. jkidd is even so arrogant that he came to this board with his "if I say this is how it is, then this is how it is"... attitude, and talking about misinformation. When indeed it is he and his company, that are the ones guilty of misinformation. He stated to email him if you had any questions. Of course he wanted you to email him, rather than speak up in a thread, where he would be outed for all his lies, and people couldnt see the even more lies, he was feeding to unhappy customers.
To all the people who mocked myself and Smelonas, I hope you are happy. Rather than using a little common sense, doing a little homework, and looking at the facts.... you chose to make fun of us. Statements like "wild speculation bordering on paranoid delusions" or .... "8 pages of runaway insanity of conspiracy theories!"... were used. Rather than doing any homework to find the same facts/information that was available to us "insane and delusional conspiracy theorists"..... you chose blind and biased support of jkidd/DAP.... which only allowed them to be able tokeep lying to people over and over, rather than out him and DAP.
There is a LOT of information in this post. I have tried to proofread it, but my apologies if you find any typos or quotes missing.