Carter P4601HP fuel pump - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Carter P4601HP fuel pump

Walbro is starting to show its age now after 4+ years and 130k+ miles or so, installed back in 2011~12. The walbro is still pumping but sounds unhappy when it kicks on in the morning. To be clear, I have no pressure issues, rail pressure commanded is being met with the current setup, although, I don't run high pressure anyways. Considering going to a Carter p4601hp pump and seeing how that holds up over the long term. Research says that there is a screen on the input side of the pump that will clog over time and needs to be cleaned.

Question is, will the FF5079 filter be enough to keep the screen clean in the pump? I am currently swapping that FF5079 every 30k miles (and awe crap I think I missed a swap, it was due last oil change... doh).

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p4601hp

https://www.genosgarage.com/product/ff5079/fuel-filters


AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 60HP II injectors, 319k, HPTuners, G56, mpg threads ->
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 07:43 PM
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Water corrosion damages far more fuel lift pumps and HPCR injection systems than dirt.

The small inline filter FF5079 only filters to 125um. Not enough to protect a fuel pump. Plus it has no water separator capability.

Consider putting in a Baldwin BF1212 pre pump, filters down to 20 um and has excellent high water capacity with an easy to work drain. Even separates emulsified diesel/water. The drain is handy for troubleshooting fuel tank pickup plugged issues. Water separator pre pump also protects the pump from from freezing water burst or damage issues.

Only requires a FB1311 base and fittings. The filter lasts thousands of engine hours. I just carry a spare, never had to change it on the road.

Add a touch of TC-W3 to the diesel, lubes the lift pump bushings for long life and quiet operation.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, I don't think there is room down there for a filter pre-pump the way its currently setup. I will have a 2nd look next time I crawl under there. Your comments on the water damage makes me wonder if that could have been an issue with the current pump. It certainly does not sound like it did for the first 1~2 years it was in use. The carter pump does have a screen on it and I have not seen any info on how well it filters. It certainly does nothing for water.

I will say though the FF5079 sucks to change, its high up off the tank and the abs get a workout while swapping it.

AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 60HP II injectors, 319k, HPTuners, G56, mpg threads ->
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 07:50 AM
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Please don't have a stroke but I do have this link:
Baldwin fuel/water serperator users. Dont use. - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum

look at info, not title.

Oh, and BTW my pump makes a little noise every now and then. I've been looking into a pre-filter. (technically that little thing we run now is a strainer - yes, I know...)
Plenty of room down there...


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03 3500 QC/LB SRW auto - LT285/75 Nitto Dura's - TRE trans w/triple - B&M 10280 - 4770 Filter Head -Carter P4070 - (FASS Platinum on shelf) - S06 PoD - BMS 50s - Donaldson M101167 & 30" FTE Res/Muffler - 08.5 Steering - 988 Springs - 5100's - CTS2
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Which pump was it that you were going to install but had no place to install it? (we chatted about that a while back). Still have it on the bench?

AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 60HP II injectors, 319k, HPTuners, G56, mpg threads ->
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 11:38 AM
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The Baldwin is a pump prefilter that also removes pump destroying water.

10um or 3 um filters plug up too quickly for a prefilter.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
Which pump was it that you were going to install but had no place to install it? (we chatted about that a while back). Still have it on the bench?
That's it... P4601HP
Still getting things organized in the new place (just moved few months ago), and still can't pull the entire truck into any one building, yet.
It may fit in the barn but haven't really checked, but also don't really want to lay where I know a horse has crapped or pissed...
This time when I do the swap (should take all of 2 minutes for the pump) I also want to do a pickup tube/draw straw. I think the stock... what ever is full of crud. Also I'll be using more than one draw straw for more than one pump, and I even thought about having one just running just to filter, then return to the tank. Not sure about that one. But, I'll be removing the bed. that I can do if I just back into something I've got. (garage, shed, etc.)
Gotta figure out where to build my new big a$$ building.

03 3500 QC/LB SRW auto - LT285/75 Nitto Dura's - TRE trans w/triple - B&M 10280 - 4770 Filter Head -Carter P4070 - (FASS Platinum on shelf) - S06 PoD - BMS 50s - Donaldson M101167 & 30" FTE Res/Muffler - 08.5 Steering - 988 Springs - 5100's - CTS2
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 04:25 PM
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The Carter 4601HP is a mediocre pump and cheap. It is internally regulated and the needle and seat have a finite life before they wear and cause internal leakage which leads to a drop in flow under pressure over time. The motor is also not cooled by fuel.

I'm assuming you are currently using a Walbro 392? If so, that is a superior pump by every measure.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTD NUT View Post
... is a mediocre pump and cheap.

I'm assuming you are currently using a Walbro 392? If so, that is a superior pump by every measure.
As apposed to the $650 FASS that lasted less time than my Carter P4070... and yes, the Walbro is a good pump. I've got one of those on the shelf too.
It's just funny how the pump that people swore would last a month has lasted longer than the 'what you really need' pump. (then they change me a $35 bench test fee just to tell me nothing wrong with pump)
https://youtu.be/9_DXBbqMN5w

But for the price I can have two or three for less than a FASS that doesn't work.

03 3500 QC/LB SRW auto - LT285/75 Nitto Dura's - TRE trans w/triple - B&M 10280 - 4770 Filter Head -Carter P4070 - (FASS Platinum on shelf) - S06 PoD - BMS 50s - Donaldson M101167 & 30" FTE Res/Muffler - 08.5 Steering - 988 Springs - 5100's - CTS2
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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FYI for those already running this pump...

Quote:
RamnJoe
01-31-2006, 05:24 PM
For all of you currently using the 4601 as a replecement lift pump or those of you considering it, this will be of interest.
First, this report is is in no way meant to detract from the FASS system. Which is a superior system, but at a much higher cost.
It is out of product fairness that I toss this information on the table.

In Nov. 2004 my OEM lift pump bagan failing so I ordered the Carter 4601 pump from Summit Racing.
Fuel pressures lived at 15psi idle and no less than 12WOT until 2 weeks ago.
Suddenly, the pressures began comming down rapidly. Changed fuel filter....no help.

Back on the phone to Summit. Explained my problem with the pump, now almost 2 months out of the one year warranty, and was met with a friendly "no problem."
A new one was sent with a one time full return credit and no shipping charged!
Good people with the right attitude that stand behind what they sell!!

Upon pulling the old pump, I decided to pull the pump chamber cap and see if I could find the failure cause.

Removing the cap, (3 screws) I am impressed with the construction of this pump.
It is a 4 vane slider all stainless steel pump and chamber. Nothing to wear out here at all.

Problem was.........A small bandaid size screen filter on the inlet side of the chamber was coated with what looked like water scum and mineral deposits across the entire surface of the screen!! No major debris from the tank. Now I am kicking myself for not checking the old pump first before having the new one shipped.


To sum it up, old pump is ok. This time I removed the inside screen filter and added a large inline fuel filter before the pump.
Barring a future outright failure of the pump motor, my pressures are back on top again and should remain there, I am hoping, for a very long time.
Carter 4601 long term report [Archive] - DieselRam.com

AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 60HP II injectors, 319k, HPTuners, G56, mpg threads ->
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 10:08 PM
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The in tank pump seems to make less headlines than anything out there.
It's just a to swap out when it does go.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danderson View Post
The in tank pump seems to make less headlines than anything out there.
It's just a to swap out when it does go.
There are just sooo many brands out there... I don't see too many people saying what brand in tank they run. My dealer can't tell me what they install, but will install what ever I bring them. (?)
Funny part about changing a in tank pump- you are also changing the fuel strainer as most people swap the entire unit.

Oh, and the strainers I ever get never show flow direction...

03 3500 QC/LB SRW auto - LT285/75 Nitto Dura's - TRE trans w/triple - B&M 10280 - 4770 Filter Head -Carter P4070 - (FASS Platinum on shelf) - S06 PoD - BMS 50s - Donaldson M101167 & 30" FTE Res/Muffler - 08.5 Steering - 988 Springs - 5100's - CTS2
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