Stock Injectors Destroying Engines?

[bobinyelm]

My truck is down for a new engine at 109,000mi due to ring galling of block bores.

I am hearing that '03 and '04 injectors are VERY prone to cracked or leaking injector seats that cause extra fuel in those cylinders that are destroying engines.

A Bosch distributor says that they recommend all injectors be replaced after 125,000miles, and that my engine experience is fairly common, and due to leaking injectors. He said the engine will continue to run smoothly w/ worn injectors, but it just craters the cylinders.

He did say that 109k miles is a bit early (he said most fail at 150k miles and up).

The Bosch distributor says ALL of their injectors are actually REMANUFACTURED (NOT new), which seems a bit much for $400 each. "New" injectors are NOT available from Bosch or anyone else.

I'd like to hear from anyone with a solution to this problem, or even if such a problem exists.

I DO know the engine shop won't warranty the engine unless "new" injectors are installed, and that they want to see 2 micron filters on all new engines.
The Bosch distributor said they do NOT recommend anything more than factory filtering, however.

Please-talk to me!
I sure don't want to go through this again after another 100k miles!

Bob

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Last edited by bobinyelm : 11-05-2009 at 03:35 PM.

[Danthiele]

Sounds logical.. I am having a hell of time with mine right now. One dealer replaced two of my injectors because it was hard to start. They said the injectors were leaking. When I got it back it wouldn't start at all.. Due to a bad experience with this dealer, I had it towed to another dealer who put a new lift pump and high pressure pump in it which seemed to fix it, but after 3 days it almost won't start at all again. Don't know if it is another injector or what, but I want them all replaced. They have already replaced the pumps. I don't know what else could be causing my problem unless it is electrical.

A local fuel injection shop owner told me that there weren't supposed to be any re-man. injectors being installed according to Bosch. Who knows?

__________________
2004 Dodge Ram 3500 4X4 DRW
6 spd Stone cold stock.
CM model TM bed

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Last edited by Danthiele : 11-05-2009 at 04:03 PM.

[bobinyelm]

I called 4 different Bosch distributors and was told there are NO new injectors entering the market right now. They are ALL re-built.

I have heard the harness CAN chaffe and short where it enters the valve cover. Have them check that next time they're in there.

Best price for Genuine Bosch rebuilt is about $368, and for "after-market" rebuilt is $299, both with core returned, of course.

I was NOT expecting to spend $3000 on injectors every 100k miles when I bought the truck, or to have injectors eat an $10,000 engine, either! ($4000 for the engine, $3000 for injectors, $3000 labor to R+R)

Bob

[triton]

the problem you encountered is dealing with Bosch distributors. They are not allowed to do certain things per Bosch. New injectors are available and can be purchased. They are stainless steel now which is where some of the cost comes from. Those prices you listed are for rebuilt which is all a Bosch service center deals with. They also won't tell you to use better filtration because Bosch wants to sell you more injectors.

There are trucks on the road with well over 300K running their stock stuff still. It's all in how you care for your truck. Poor/dirty fuel is the biggest culprit in injectors failure. Extra filtration and not programmers is essential for their longevity.

Try and ask a Bosch service center to give you a flow rate on a injector.... they won't because they can't. That a no no as far as Bosch is concerned. There's plenty of aftermarket company however who can.

A new set of injectors will set you back close to 3K. The thing is though.... a Bosch rebuilt injector is totally sufficient. There's only so much that can be replaced in them though.

bottom line... you're talking to the wrong people.

__________________

www.BlackPatchDiesel.com
Garmon Diesel / Airwerks / High Tech Turbo
AirDog / Glacier Diesel / NADM / XSPower

[Dudge]

"The CR injector has already proven itself to be multiple times less reliable than the old school mechanical stuff previously used. These things will be the death of me I am certain. .

We can almost 100% expect the nozzles we modify and use to last the life of the engine, but with the rest of the stock injector from Bosch that may not be the case.

These things are like brake pads. They wear out much faster though. Seems it is not 'if' they will fail, but 'when'.

We are working on some solutions now to upgrade the factory parts used in these things and have made some headway, but until that is a common practice.......life aint gonna be all cherries for CR owners who want max reliability.

The main killer is water and emulsified water in Diesel fuel. I have seen a complete set of 6 killed in under 50 miles with nasty, watery fuel!! That is an extreme case though. But a couple of tanks of poor quality fuel and your injector has just begun to lay down on its death bed.

1) Change the filter cartridges constantly to avoid over saturation of the resin media that absorbs water.
2) Dont get wrapped up in micron rating. Instead get int he habit of changing the filters constantly.
3) Remember that fuel passing over a filter cartridge must have time to remove the water. Shoving a ton of fuel through a filter cartridge at a high rate is not helping anything.
4) Keep rail pressures in a lower zone. It is a fact we repair 10 times the number of 04.5 and up injectors VS the 03-04 variety. Pressure is playing a part in the wear.
5) Lubricity worries are way overblown. I rarely see a worn part from low lubricity. Water and dirt in the fuel causes more scuffing than anything by hundreds of percent.
6) If you get enough water present in the system to cause rusting inside the fuel rail, CP3, lines, etc. New inejctors can be wiped out from the residual stuff left behind. Rusty metal moving through the injector at high pressure will grind away material like a hot knife through butter. Make dang sure if you replace inejctors, the rest of the system is clean and rust free internally. Remember all those components mentioned are after the filter!!!!"

That was a post from Don M @ F1 on another forum. Good info I think.

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'03 Dodge 2500 - It's broken.

[imthedude]

i'd be curious to see how many fail on stock engines vs. on engines that have had mods made to them. the head tech at the local dodge place said the other night that they see stuff starting to go south in engines that have been tweaked more often than ones that remain stock. i wonder if that's the case w/ injectors.

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2003 White 2500 5.9L CTD QC SB 4wd Auto 3.73

[Dudge]

There have been lots of people trying to make a connection for a common fault...I'd also like to know. I know the "meltdown" is happening more in the 04.5+ motors and MOST of the people who have had problems ran a box/programmer of some sort. I on the other hand have a '03 model that was melted pretty bad, and the previous owner claims that it didn't have any kind of tune. Most of the failures I've read about in the '03-'04.5 crowd have been stock to mildly modified engines.

Booo injector failure!

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'03 Dodge 2500 - It's broken.

[Whiskey Tango]

I'm not an expert or anything but I say it got hot

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04 2500 4x4 325HO 48re LB QC Leveling kit with 315's

[Dudge]

Little warm....that was #6, and #5 looks almost as bad. I think they'll clean up though....might have to put a set of rings on them.

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'03 Dodge 2500 - It's broken.

[right_on]

I have 181,400miles on mine with no problems. Truck runs excellent, and has had the quadzilla on it for the last 90,000miles, but i hardly ever turn it on, just when someones wants to try and jump on it.

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2003 2500 4 Door 4x4 Laramie, Quadzilla Monster Air Intake, Pusher Intake Manifold, Quadzilla XZT 3 Setting 140hp Module, Boost Fooler, Siliencer Ring Out, Straight pipe With 5in Tip

[Whiskey Tango]

Originally Posted by Dudge

Little warm....that was #6, and #5 looks almost as bad. I think they'll clean up though....might have to put a set of rings on them.

OMG that's funny!

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04 2500 4x4 325HO 48re LB QC Leveling kit with 315's

[04yamaha]

Originally Posted by Dudge

Little warm....that was #6, and #5 looks almost as bad. I think they'll clean up though....might have to put a set of rings on them.

lol oh sure get the dremil out she will clean right up

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06 Quad Cab, 4x4,48RE. muffler delete.
120,000 kms