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Pushrods; Specs

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33K views 58 replies 16 participants last post by  Shane.Fowler  
#1 ·
Stock:
Tubing size: 3/8" x .060"
Material: 1010

I am currently looking at which to go with:

Manning:
-3/8" x .083"
-4340 with billet ends

Hamilton HD Pushrods; 4130 Chromoly w/ hardened 8620 pressed in ends
-Wall Thickness?
-Overall Diameter?

Heavy Duty Maxxspool 4340 Chromoly pushrods with billet ends
-Wall Thickness?
-Overall diameter?
 
#3 ·
1998.5-2012 24 valve Cummins

They sell two styles of pushrods.......HD and Extreme

Hamilton Extreme:
Intake: 3/8" x .095"
Exhaust: 7/16" x .120"

The Extreme pushrods are for 750 HP and over........definitely not needed for me

I wonder why they don't list the specs for the HD pushrods though?
 
#36 ·
FYI, all 12 of my extremes are the same size. Not sure if something changed or what but they are 100% the same.
 
#4 ·
Found some info:

Manning:
-3/8" x .083"
-4340 with billet ends

Hamilton HD Pushrods:
-3/8" x .095"
-4130 Chromoly w/ hardened 8620 ends

Hamilton Extreme:
Intake: 3/8" x .095"
Exhaust: 7/16" x .120"
 
#5 ·
#7 ·
I'm running the hamilton hd's and they have stood up to many hours of high rpm high hp constant abuse.. but maxspool is supposed to hsve a set out that are supposed to be the strongest on the market
 
#8 · (Edited)
A study on Cummins pushrods...... Regardless of the pushrod you want to use, find out what the buckling strength is and compare that to the data for a given HP level to make sure you have the right part for your particular application. Data, not opinions, should transcend any brand mongering. Many a buyer has been duped, being sold something that does not address the needs in his application, by somebody who does not understand what they are selling. Some products are made up to address a certain price point, not the needs of a certain application. This because sellers know that in many cases a person will buy based on price point, not technical merit. To this end, a .080" wall thickness will be a very minimal gain in rigidity over a factory piece. It's price point and it's effectiveness are equal....minimal


The pushrod is a very important and often overlooked component in any high horsepower build. It doesn't have to do a much, just transmit lift from the lifter to the rocker arm, and bend or deflect as little as possible. Reducing mass in an engine is almost always a good thing, however there are a few places, in order to work correctly under high stress, that require a super rigid part. The problem is that more rigidity almost always means more mass. In these applications that require a super rigid part, pushrods, connecting rods, wrist pins etc., to reduce mass excessively would be to get a part that either doesn't live long, or a part that reduces performance. This is where pushrods fall. I hear some concern about pushrods and weight, but I can assure you the negatives of additional mass are more than out weighed by the benefits of having the valve open at the correct time, having the valve stay open longer and the additional lift gained from no deflection. The pushrods in street driven diesels are much less weight than nascar pushrods that spin more than double the rpm. Research supports a more rigid design meaning more mass. When running double the horsepower they were designed for, factory pushrods deflect before they open the valve, which reduces lift, and retards cam timing, which in turn reduces airflow. The exhaust pushrod has to overcome phenominal pressure from cylinder pressure that acts on the valve face and is multiplied by the rocker arm and then applied to the pushrod. Some nascar engines use .437"o.d./.120" wall and others .500"o.d./.168" wall and spin over 10,000 rpm. A heavier pushrod has more benefit than a light weight, less rigid pushrod, especially since it is on the low velocity side of the rocker arm.



Some people say that performance pushrods are not necessary, the numbers say otherwise.

Lets look at wall thickness, O.D., material, and load buckling weight(using Uhlers equation for column strength in steel columns with moderate sideloading) first, then design. This buckling factor is the approx. weight in lbs needed to buckle a steel column. In the first picture from left to right factory,brand x, motorsport supply, Hamilton 3/8, Hamilton 7/16

factory, X, motorsport supply, HD3/8 , HD7/16

wall thickness-.075", .041", .083", .095", .168"

O.D- .375", .313", .375", .379", .437

material- mild steel, chromoly, chromoly, 4130chr, 4130chr

Buckle weight- 1794 lbs , 741 lbs., 1982 lbs, 2064 lbs, 4035 lbs

Buckling weight is a way to define rigidity and resistance to bending in a pushrod. Now that you know what the buckling force is on the various pushrods on the market, let's look at how that affects your engine factoring for your rpm, horsepower, displacement and rpm you make your power used in the calculations.

The following equations are for average cylinder pressure not peak which would be much higher close to TDCC. Average cylinder pressure is more useable than peak cylinder pressure as the exhaust valve is opening nowhere close to TDC. Also for horsepower the equation calls for BHP which is at the flywheel. For this I assume any reading obtained at the rear wheels will have a 16% loss in the driveline. Also a lot of trucks I have seen peak at around 2600rpm-3300rpm but, the calculations are assuming 2,600rpm.

792,000xBHP/C.I.x rpm=avg cyl pressure

325hp at crank = 273 at the wheels= 275psi 600 hp at crank=504 at wheels= 509psi. 750=630hp at the wheels=636psi 1000=840hpat the wheels=848psi 1200=1008hp at the wheels=1018 psi

Now lets figure load on the pushrod factoring 2.65 sq. in. of valve face surface area, to calculate for a 12v find the surface area of your valves and then use either a 1.69 rocker ratio.

275 hp=273psi x 2.65sq in= 728 lbs +220lbs spring press. X 1.34 exh. rocker ratio is 1271 lbs.

504hp= 2102 lbs force on pushrod

630= 2553lbs on pushrod

1000=3306 lbs on pushrod

1200= 3909 lbs on pushrod

Factory pushods are rated at 1794 lbs, Motorsport supply 1982 lbs. Hamilton 3/8" 2064 and Hamilton 7/16" 4035. Over 500 rear wheel horsepower and you at least need the 3/8 .095" wall. If you are over 630rwhp, you really need to jump to the 7/16" .120" wall. If you don't, the pushrod deflects first then opens the valve. It delays the valve opening which can reduce spool and power. If you are a low budget street racer you will not notice much difference but if you are racing or sled pulling, there is a benefit.

As for a cummins pushrod that has a wall thickness of .080", buckling strength will be around ~1850lbs.

The only way to really compare pushrods is to look at buckling force, the type and hardness of the ends, and the surfae area of the ends. Take the buckling force, then compare that to the horsepower/cylinder pressure for your application and then factor for your surface area of valves. If a person uses boost pressure to dictate what pushrod to use, that is a pretty good indication that they have no idea what they are selling. I have seen 40psi produce 200hp and I have seen 40psi produce 1,000hp.


In the end it is up to you the consumer to judge your needs and the remedy.
 
#9 ·
factory pushods are rated at 1794 lbs, brandx 1982 lbs. Hamilton 3/8" 2064 and hamilton 7/16" 4035. Over 500 rear wheel horsepower and you at least need the 3/8 .095" wall. If you are over 630rwhp, you really need to jump to the 7/16" .120" wall. If you don't, the pushrod deflects first then opens the valve. It delays the valve opening which can reduce spool and power. If you are a low budget street racer you will not notice much difference but if you are racing or sled pulling, there is a benefit.

As for a pushrod that has a wall thickness of .080", buckling strength will be around ~1850lbs.
thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like the Hamilton HDs will fit my needs
 
#10 ·
Stupid question.........when buying pushrods, does a "kit" come with the intake and exhaust rods?
 
#12 · (Edited)
How about these from manton pushrods? Look em up. These were way cheaper than any of the "regular" options and these guys probably make alot of those out there. these are 7/16" .120 wall. If Pat Musi endorses them how could you go wrong?



 
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#13 ·
How about these from manton pushrods? these are 7/16" .120 wall
What's the price on the 7/16" x .120" Manton's?

I have looked at them before, but couldn't find a price to compare

Yes, the 7/16" diameter is strong.........but needed for something around 800+ HP, something I wont have or need
 
#15 ·
Trend definately has choices, but they also can't spell...."Cummings" on their website

Cummins Pushrods | Trend Performance

Stage I
#TPD1160803-3
Black oxide
3/8" x .080" wall

Stage II
#TPD11601353-10C3
Satin finish
3/8" x .135″ wall

Stage III:
#TPD11601657-10C3
Satin finish
7/16" x .165″ wall
 
#17 ·
Manton's prices are great:

http://www.mantonpushrods.com/Images/Jobber_Price_4_Web.pdf

Series 3:
-4130/4135 Hard Drawn
- Non-Guide Plate Use

Series 4:
-4130/4135 MeloniteTM Processed
-Guide Plate Use

Series 5:
-4130/4135 Salt Heat Treated to 275,000 p.s.i. Tensil
-Non-Guide Plate Use


What's the diff between guide plate and non-guide plate?
 
#18 · (Edited)
Cummins don't run guide plates so it's not an issue. It's something to do with the sizes of the guide plates themselves.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the info and the suggestion to use Manton, I love smaller businesses especially when they make a better product for a cheaper price!
 
#22 ·
Smith Brothers also makes Cummins pushords, which is a great Oregon based company:

Smith Bros. Push Rods Bend Oregon

Made from 4130 chromoly tube.

They have 3/8 tube in .120” and .145” wall thickness

They have 7/16 tube in .095”, .120” and .165” wall tube.

They said the 3/8 diameter is most common on the Cummins engines, but there are a few customers that do order the larger 7/16.

The rep said the bottom near the lifter is usually the area of concern with the 7/16 pushrods as to whether they will clear or not. Here are some prices on sets of 12:

3/8 x .120 --- $178.80

3/8 x .145 --- $205.68

7/16 x .095 --- $180.48

7/16 x .120 --- $214.68

7/16 x .165 --- $268.32
 
#24 ·
Stock pushrods are thin and flex under my hand pressure

I could only imagine inside a motor what they do

Thanks for the input, but I am going to spend $200 and see what happens
 
#28 · (Edited)
Stock:
Tubing size: 3/8" x .060"
Material: 1010

----------------------------

MaxSpool Pushrods:
3/8" x .083" Heat Treated 4340 Chrome moly with 4340 billet cups
Gorilla push rods are 7/16" x .165" wall tappered to 3/8's on either end

I was told some other brands use 4310 with 8620 cups, according to MaxSpool

--------------------------

Manning:
-3/8" x .083"
-4340 with billet ends

--------------------------

1998.5-2012 24 valve Cummins

Hamilton sells two styles of pushrods.......HD and Extreme

Hamilton HD Pushrods:
-3/8" x .095"
-4130 Chromoly w/ hardened 8620 ends

Hamilton Extreme:
Intake: 3/8" x .095"
Exhaust: 7/16" x .120"

------------------------------

Trend definately has choices, but they also can't spell...."Cummings" on their website

Cummins Pushrods | Trend Performance

Stage I
#TPD1160803-3
Black oxide
3/8" x .080" wall

Stage II
#TPD11601353-10C3
Satin finish
3/8" x .135″ wall

Stage III:
#TPD11601657-10C3
Satin finish
7/16" x .165″ wall


------------------------------

Manton's prices are great:

http://www.mantonpushrods.com/Images/Jobber_Price_4_Web.pdf

Series 3:
-4130/4135 Hard Drawn
- Non-Guide Plate Use

Series 4:
-4130/4135 MeloniteTM Processed
-Guide Plate Use

Series 5:
-4130/4135 Salt Heat Treated to 275,000 p.s.i. Tensil
-Non-Guide Plate Use

------------------------------

Smith Brothers:

Smith Bros. Push Rods Bend Oregon

Made from 4130 chromoly tube.

They have 3/8 tube in .120” and .145” wall thickness

They have 7/16 tube in .095”, .120” and .165” wall tube.

They said the 3/8 diameter is most common on the Cummins engines, but there are a few customers that do order the larger 7/16.

The rep said the bottom near the lifter is usually the area of concern with the 7/16 pushrods as to whether they will clear or not. Here are some prices on sets of 12:

3/8 x .120 --- $178.80

3/8 x .145 --- $205.68

7/16 x .095 --- $180.48

7/16 x .120 --- $214.68

7/16 x .165 --- $268.32
 
#29 ·
Anyone else I need to get info on?
 
#32 ·
I agree

Lots of good info

Lots of mis-information out there along with cheaper, over priced parts
 
#33 ·
looking to get pushrods what did you end up getting D45 thinking about manton #305 im looking to be around 700hp just want to buy these once lol great thread by the way :thumbsup:
 
#34 ·
Specs for the Manton push rods which you may or may not need (depending on who answers the phone) when ordering are: PN: 304 3/8" .095 wall 11.45 OAL 10mm ball 10mm cup and you need 12 of them.

hamilton extreme duty uses 3/8" .095 wall for the exhaust and 7/16" .120 wall for intake. (6 each) I really don't see the need for running two different sizes and I think they do it just to be cheaper. But in most cases I would say the .095 wall will do for anyone under 1k hp... They still dwarf the stock push rods and are much higher quality as well.

Great company to deal with. They had my push rods built and shipped the same week I ordered them. And yes I said built and shipped... they build the rods on demand. They are not just sitting on a shelf somewhere collecting dust. These rods are custom spec built on demand. Manton builds push rods for all applications including tool steel push rods for top fuel dragsters.
 
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#35 ·
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