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Would appreciate some advice;

2K views 17 replies 5 participants last post by  stingray1511 
#1 ·
Hi, I'm new here, my name's Ken, I've been trying to troubleshoot a 'new-to-me' truck. It's a 2007.5 Ram DRW 6.7 Auto, with @ 250k miles. It has the EGR/DPF delete and Magnaflow exhaust, and came with an XRT Pro tuner. I've owned the truck about 6 weeks, but have only driven it about 4 days out of that. First day, bringing it home, just outside my driveway, it suddenly quits running, as if it's out of fuel. I coast into my parking space... it could've been worse, like in traffic, so that's good anyway. I called the seller, he said that happened to him once, so he came over and we checked to make sure the lift pump was working. It was, so we plugged in the tuner, and it didn't communicate with the ECM, so, we figured it was bricked. The ECM was under warranty from when he bought it about 8k miles ago, (he had the transmission replaced then too) so he sent it in, and it took about 2 weeks to get a new one back. We put that one in, it started, ran ok, but still had a few codes that the tuner wouldn't take out. I drove it 3-4 days, then, a 'reduced engine power' message pops up, while driving, once more, it just stops running. I again coast to a safe place, wait a few minutes, and it starts back up. I drive it home, park it, and find a mechanic nearby to diagnose it. He takes it in, and it sits there for 3 1/2 weeks... he never calls me, and acts like I'm putting him out when I check on it once a week. Ok fine, I go there yesterday, and he says he thinks it's got a bad hi pressure fuel pump. I go get it, take it home, and am now trying to confirm that's the problem, because there are a few other things that it could be, and I can't afford to just throw parts at it, I'm a totally disabled vet, and on a very fixed income.

So, it's putting out 8 codes, but most of them are from the EGR/DPF delete and the P0037 & P0038 O2 sensor heater circuit too low, I think the cat might be gone, so I'm not worried about that. Here are some of the codes that I'm looking at that could cause the quitting problem. The P0087, Fuel rail pressure too low; P1012 Fuel pump delivery pressure too hi; and a P268D Cyl injector data incompatible. The tuner isn't taking any of these DTCs out, I'd like the emissions stuff gone so my CEL doesn't come on. So, there may be something wrong with the tuner.

The things I suspect are: the fuel pressure regulator ($89), the fuel pressure sensor ($306.79), the Fuel Injector auxiliary air supply (fuel pressure relief valve) ($352) ; The Fuel injector pump ($756.99) or the Diesel fuel injector driver module (no price). With all the experience on this forum, surely someone has had this problem, and can point me in the right direction, hopefully, one day I can pay it forward :)
 
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#2 ·
Have you had your batteries tested? Low input voltage can do all kinds of crazy stuff to the ECM. how do your cables look? If the ends are corroded, there's a chance they're internally corroded as well. If they're not transmitting power as designed, that can cause spikes in voltage and throw stuff outta whack. Also, verify all your grounds are connected and clean. There's a bunch of them. Carbonitecummins (website) has a service manual you can look at to find them all. Given that the trans was replaced, I'm guessing at least a couple grounds were probably disconnected and may have developed some corrosion under them before being reconnected. If batteries, cables, and grounds check out, then it's time to start looking at the alternator, ECM, and TIPM.

Did you get the tuner with the truck? If it's tuned, the module should be vin-locked to the truck so the seller should've included it in the sale. Is the truck deleted?

This is frankly a lot of work to be doing on a truck you just bought - if it wasn't disclosed to have issues, I'd suggest you consider talking with the seller (or a lawyer) about getting some of your money back. Or selling the prior owner the truck back for the purchase price. Kinda a harsh move, yeah, but this isn't Honda Civic money - and it shouldn't be ratty old Pinto reliability either.

On the bright side though, once you get this thing sorted if you decided to keep at it, you might have a darn near mechanically new truck! Good luck, hope this helps, and welcome to the forum!
 
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#3 ·
Hi, thank you for the reply! Yes, the batteries, I forgot to mention that. It was suggested, as you said, that weak or dead batteries could cause the ecm to act crazy, so I took them out, and sure enough, one was dead, and the other one was circling the drain. The seller replaced them with new ones. Honestly, I don't blame him, he couldn't have known that this was going to happen. He's retired military and civil service GS12, and the way he kept the truck was remarkable. He's the type that really takes care of his stuff, and he was good enough to come and help with it. Other types of people would've said, sorry, it was an 'as is' sale, so, tough luck. I wouldn't sell a truck knowing that it had problems like this, and I'm sure he wouldn't either.

Anyways, we went over the whole truck, looking for any connection that looked bad or chaffed. I'll take your advice and look closer at the grounds though. I figure after this problem is solved, it's going to be a great truck. I just don't know how to determine which component is at fault, and that's where these forums are so great, there's years of valuable experience that's at your finger tips. I just hope I don't have to sink more money that I don't have into it. It took everything I had, then some, just to buy it.
 

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#4 ·
The emissions codes you're getting are from the replacement ECM. When the last ECM bricked you weren't able to remove the tune from it (unlock the tuner). If the tune wasn't loaded onto the new ECM then voilá, codes.
I don't know enough about H&S tuners to advise you where to go from here but I'm sure others are.
(Don't know if you can get multiple licenses for the H&S)

As for the prices you're getting for the parts, I'd check your local Cummins dealer or some online genuine parts dealers before I purchase them at dealer prices.
 
#5 ·
I don't know much about the tuner either, other than the ECM is basically new, and the tuner doesn't remove the DTCs for the EGR/DPF delete. I read where the EPA (I think) put them ( XRT Pro) out of business. We did load the tune to the new ECM, but apparently it didn't take. I'm thinking that the tuner isn't doing what it's supposed to do, and while it's not bricked, it's lost it's ability to tune. The prices I quoted are from Rock Auto, I've had good luck with them and there are usually plenty of choices there, but, yes, I do shop around and get opinions about the best quality of parts for my dollar.
 
#6 ·
as @xcc_rider said, if the old ECM was bricked, the tuner was probably already married to that ECM and thus wouldn't be able to be loaded to the new ECM. if you're deleted and in need of a tune, look into EFI life. it'll set ya back a bit but hook up with one of the vendors on here and they'll get you squared away. i can't vouch for anyone but @phale with Anarchy as i've dealt with him personally (and a few other folks over there) but others have had excellent experiences with many other tuners so i don't think you can really go wrong. pick your poison and proceed to love your truck - it'll be a completely different animal on EFI life. i know it's a cliche but it's a refrain i think you'd be hard-pressed to hear otherwise.

you're correct: the EPA is on a major bender putting aftermarket suppliers out of business left and right. some of them survived by having assets tied up where the EPA couldn't extort them out of business, but most of them had to launch a separate line of EPA-compliant "tuners" which do everything except disable emissions systems.

check out Geno's for parts as well; they're reasonable prices, quick shipping, and great to deal with.

ha! another DoD civvy. my last gig was working for TRADOC G-2 as a GG-13. made it to step 4 before my appointment ended and the program and i parted ways. great work if you can get it.
 
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#7 ·
Thank you to those responding to help, it's very much appreciated. The Carbonitecummins site was pretty cool. Progress note, thanks to the seller, I got the tuner reset and loaded the proper tune, cleared the EGR/DPF codes, and ran diagnostics. Now, only 3 codes present:

P0087 Fuel rail pressure too low;
P1012 Fuel pump delivery pressure too high, and
P268D Cylinder 2 injector data incompatible.

So, is it likely the high pressure fuel pump, the fuel pressure regulator, the fuel pressure sensor, the fuel Injector auxiliary air supply (fuel pressure relief valve); or the diesel fuel injector driver module ?

Can I take any of these out to test them? It looks easy enough, (the $$$ for the parts is a problem). I'll have to do the work myself, I turned a few wrenches in the 60s and 70s and a little in between, so I'm not afraid to jump in. But where do I start, and with these codes, what would you think?
 

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#9 ·
I don't know, it could be that the injector was replaced before. I'm worried about the fuel pressure. If the fuel delivery pressure is too high, then the rail fuel should be high too, at least that's my guess.
 
#10 ·
As far as delivery pressure goes, it being too high does not cause the rail pressure to increase. If its too low and starving the cp3 of fuel then sure the rail pressure could go low. The cp3 has a return so it can bleed off excess fuel and send it back to the tank when its not needed. a lift pump that's putting out excess pressure woud not translate to high rail pressure in my experience. I would start by looking at that injector, Maybe you can get your hands on a snap on computer (or something like it) and do some injector testing (injector kill test, balance test, ect.). Having the info from those tests should be able to at least point you in the right direction, if not give you a definitive answer.
 
#11 ·
And that data incompatable may be caused by an in programed injector? Any time an injector is changed on these trucks the computer must be programed to that injector.
 
#12 ·
The old ECM bricked, so the new ECM couldn't know of a replacement injector. The new ECM went to factory defaults, including the factory injector data. The only thing I can do about that now is take the valve cover off and copy the numbers down and have those numbers written to the new ECM.... The DTC doesn't say that the #2 injector is malfunctioning, it just says incompatible data about the injector... I don't know, but I think that it takes special equipment to write that injector data to the new ECM... isn't that correct?
 
#14 ·
Quick update... I just chatted with Andrew at Injectors Direct, he says that most likely, the injectors, at that high mileage, are the problem. He says that it has high injector return flow and it's causing the low rail pressure. The pump is trying to supply more to the injectors to keep the rail pressurized. So now, I'll have to see if I can come up with enough for new Bosch injectors at $2k, or if I'll have to get their remanned ones at $1k. Hey, at least the pump is probably good. Look for the silver lining, right? I'll be eating a lot of beans next month!
 
#15 ·
They are easy enough to change, I would only change whats bad. Also I would not feel comfortable spending that kind of money on a "most likely" diagnosis over the phone. Get a good scan tool and run some tests, if you have a bad injector you will be able to know for sure, also it will allow you to see exactly which ones aren't functioning correctly.
 
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#16 ·
Good advice, thank you. The trouble here in my area there aren't many diesel mechanics, much less 'good' ones that you can trust. I don't know anyone with a scan tool I could borrow, but there's a Dodge dealership up the road here. I can just imagine that scenario, but it's probably my only choice if I want it diagnosed properly. I'll just have to go talk to them and flat out tell them that I ONLY want it diagnosed, that I'll fix it myself.
 
#17 ·
Welcome to SunCoast Diesel -

They're not in Pensacola, but they're in the panhandle. Lot of folks here run their stuff and they have a good reputation in the diesel community; they might be able to point you toward a competent diesel shop in your area.
 
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#18 ·
Thank you, I'll give them a call on Monday and see what they say. Maybe they can suggest someone here that take a look at this with experienced eyes.
 
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