urea Exhaust in 2013's, good or bad? - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-28-2012, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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urea Exhaust in 2013's, good or bad?

I was considering trading my 09 6.7 (all deletes in place) in on a 12 due to the fact that in 13 dodge is going with the urea set up but am now second guessing myself.

1. I know the urea can be a pain if you run it out but that can easily be avoided

2. If they go to the urea then will they do away with the DPF?

3. Are we gonna get more power and better mileage with the urea than with the DPF?

Anyway, just curious if anyone has any "inside" info or knowlege

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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-28-2012, 06:43 PM
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the urea is used to "burn off" the dpf so no the dpf will still be in place just wont use a 4th injection of diesel to regen.
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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-28-2012, 06:50 PM
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Rumour has it 395HP and 800 Tq with the urea model 2013 but nothing confirmed yet

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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-28-2012, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVctd81 View Post
the urea is used to "burn off" the dpf so no the dpf will still be in place just wont use a 4th injection of diesel to regen.
Correction, DEF is used to help control NOx emissions. As a result, EGR use is reduced which helps with sooting and fuel consumption issues. There will still be a late injection used to burn off the DPF, however the regen frequency will be reduced thanks to reduced EGR use and the engine running more efficiently as a result.

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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 05:03 AM
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DEF is not combustible. It is urea and water, period. Cannot be used to burn soot in the DPF. They will still waste raw diesel fuel in the exhaust trying to burn off the soot, and now will also waste DEF trying to sanitize NOx. Look up the diagram someone earlier posted up of how it will all be hooked up to the exhaust system. DEF is just more crapola on top of existing crapola.
Someone needs to examine what is more important in a diesel. Power, performance, reliability, and fuel economy,,,,or keeping some EPA scientists employed. JUst one active volcano or forest fire puts forth more soot and ash and various other carcinogens than all the diesels operating in America for a lifetime. Maybe they ought to put the EPA to work on cleaning up the active volcanoes

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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 05:24 AM
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It will not be cheaper to operate. Plus the expense of urea at 20 some odd dollars for each 1000 miles. The cost adds quickly. The EPA is responsible for the crapola and Dodge can't be blamed. In order to even sell vehicles they have to be certified first. That is if it is built in USA. Seems like imports sometimes get a free pass that Dodge does not get in their country. Try selling any US made vehicle in Japan..

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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 07:55 AM
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Try pulling up to your favorite fuel station and pump DEF (UREA) into your 'extra' tank. the infrastructure is underway but not readily available at most places..We have 6000 to 8000 18 Wheelers that come into Laredo, Tx daily and there is all of ONE place you can 'pump' the DEF (UREA)...It is available in 2.5 gallon containers and up, for a price of course..We have a big Fleet here at the City and we pay $16.00 for the 2.5 gal container for now..Remember this, DEF is a COMMODITY, so guess where the PRICE is going! Anyway, Yeah, I don't like this system and I won't buy a new pickup with it with the extra plumbing , tank, etc..I've bought my last new Truck anyway..Age is creeping up on me...The big Trucks have a guage while the Pickups will let you know when you need to add this precious COMMODITY..Thanks, EPA/CARB! I guess it is what it is..Good luck to all..JD

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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500 Dodge View Post
DEF is not combustible. It is urea and water, period. Cannot be used to burn soot in the DPF. They will still waste raw diesel fuel in the exhaust trying to burn off the soot, and now will also waste DEF trying to sanitize NOx. Look up the diagram someone earlier posted up of how it will all be hooked up to the exhaust system. DEF is just more crapola on top of existing crapola.
Someone needs to examine what is more important in a diesel. Power, performance, reliability, and fuel economy,,,,or keeping some EPA scientists employed. JUst one active volcano or forest fire puts forth more soot and ash and various other carcinogens than all the diesels operating in America for a lifetime. Maybe they ought to put the EPA to work on cleaning up the active volcanoes
Cleaning up Active Volcanoes by the EPA? That's a great idea! Maybe we can convince the current Admnistration to get this done with another GOVERNMENT HANDOUT!

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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 09:08 AM
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I just purchased a new John Deere farm tractor, and it has the same DPF-NOx diesel fuel injection system my Dodge (used to have) without the DEF urea. That comes next year. They are injecting precious, scarce, expensive raw diesel directly in front of the DPF filter with a dedicated seperate injector, pump and line, rather than the Cummins way--injecting within the motor during the exhaust stroke and "blowing" the raw diesel back to the DPF. I think it might eliminate the problems with fuel dilution of the crankcase oil, since the diesel fuel injection event it is happening quite a distance away from the motor, but doesn't eliminate the terrible waste of an expensive, scarce natural resource, diesel fuel.

Get this, if I lived in Mexico, the Deere tractor would ship without the DPF, NOx, fuel injection, etc. (tier 2 only). Air quality vs farm tractor productivity and reliability isn't an issue down there. Don't you Texans ever get a South wind from Mexico?? I can't believe it, the failure of sensible government in this country is beyond reason.

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Last edited by 2500 Dodge; 08-29-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLETS View Post
Try pulling up to your favorite fuel station and pump DEF (UREA) into your 'extra' tank. the infrastructure is underway but not readily available at most places..We have 6000 to 8000 18 Wheelers that come into Laredo, Tx daily and there is all of ONE place you can 'pump' the DEF (UREA)...It is available in 2.5 gallon containers and up, for a price of course..We have a big Fleet here at the City and we pay $16.00 for the 2.5 gal container for now..Remember this, DEF is a COMMODITY, so guess where the PRICE is going! Anyway, Yeah, I don't like this system and I won't buy a new pickup with it with the extra plumbing , tank, etc..I've bought my last new Truck anyway..Age is creeping up on me...The big Trucks have a guage while the Pickups will let you know when you need to add this precious COMMODITY..Thanks, EPA/CARB! I guess it is what it is..Good luck to all..JD
Every truck stop in Ontario now has pump DEF. All of yours will eventually get it.

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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 10:27 AM
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I really dont understand why this (emmissions) is such a problem with our country, according to the EPA, while the rest of the world doesnt give 2 sh!ts about emmissions!

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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-29-2012, 11:50 AM
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I really dont understand why this (emmissions) is such a problem with our country, according to the EPA, while the rest of the world doesnt give 2 sh!ts about emmissions!
Europe has had these systems long before the US did

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